Truth is born into this world only with pangs and tribulations, and every fresh truth is received unwillingly. To expect the world to receive a new truth, or even an old truth, without challenging it, is to look for one of those miracles which do not occur—Alfred Russel Wallace
In my last post about circles and circular design, I suggested that environment can play a major role in determining a culture. I recently ran across a site on a new social design by Jacque Fresco and the Venus Project, which originates in Venus, Florida. Yes, his city is in the shape of a circle. And yes, his suggested social design involves a change in “culture” and zeitgeist.
Upon entering the site, you are instantly greeted by spectacular images, portraying streamlined houses, futuristic skyscrapers, flying vehicles and cybernetic cities. The home page begins with this proclamation: “The Venus Project is an organization that proposes a feasible plan of action for social change, one that works towards a peaceful and sustainable global civilization. It outlines an alternative to strive toward where human rights are no longer paper proclamations but a way of life.”
I found their idealistic mandate somewhat naïve: “The sole purpose of this sophisticated technology is to free people from boring monotonous tasks, make available a much higher standard of living, and provide more leisure time.” And yet… dare we to achieve such a thing? Certainly we can dream. This is the stuff we science fiction writers play with all the time.
The Venus Project’s “thinking city” is either an inspirational concept in new city design or a spectacular visual dream with little practical basis. It is, in fact, difficult to interpret which Jacque Fresco’s elaborate designs fall under because of the vague, overly simple, often obscure and rather pedantic language used to describe these fascinating concepts. Under the umbrella concept of “Cities that Think”
Fresco includes a Cybernated Government, University of Global Resource Management, Subterranean Cities and Intelligent Housing. Reality aside, the project’s designs in general city planning, transportation, fuel, housing and recreation are imaginative, very attractive and suggestive of a clean, energy efficient and streamlined future. How the artist’s concepts are achieved is another matter.
Here are some examples of their new “world” society:
Cybernated government: “The human mind is far too simple to handle and put to practical use the voluminous information needed to operate a highly technical and advanced world society…Eventually the central cybernated systems will coordinate all of the machinery and equipment that serve the entire city, the nation and
ultimately the world. One can think of it as an electronic automatic nervous system extending into all areas of the social complex.”
In my last post about circles and circular design, I suggested that environment can play a major role in determining a culture. I recently ran across a site on a new social design by Jacque Fresco and the Venus Project, which originates in Venus, Florida. Yes, his city is in the shape of a circle. And yes, his suggested social design involves a change in “culture” and zeitgeist.
Upon entering the site, you are instantly greeted by spectacular images, portraying streamlined houses, futuristic skyscrapers, flying vehicles and cybernetic cities. The home page begins with this proclamation: “The Venus Project is an organization that proposes a feasible plan of action for social change, one that works towards a peaceful and sustainable global civilization. It outlines an alternative to strive toward where human rights are no longer paper proclamations but a way of life.”
I found their idealistic mandate somewhat naïve: “The sole purpose of this sophisticated technology is to free people from boring monotonous tasks, make available a much higher standard of living, and provide more leisure time.” And yet… dare we to achieve such a thing? Certainly we can dream. This is the stuff we science fiction writers play with all the time.The Venus Project’s “thinking city” is either an inspirational concept in new city design or a spectacular visual dream with little practical basis. It is, in fact, difficult to interpret which Jacque Fresco’s elaborate designs fall under because of the vague, overly simple, often obscure and rather pedantic language used to describe these fascinating concepts. Under the umbrella concept of “Cities that Think”
Fresco includes a Cybernated Government, University of Global Resource Management, Subterranean Cities and Intelligent Housing. Reality aside, the project’s designs in general city planning, transportation, fuel, housing and recreation are imaginative, very attractive and suggestive of a clean, energy efficient and streamlined future. How the artist’s concepts are achieved is another matter.Here are some examples of their new “world” society:
Cybernated government: “The human mind is far too simple to handle and put to practical use the voluminous information needed to operate a highly technical and advanced world society…Eventually the central cybernated systems will coordinate all of the machinery and equipment that serve the entire city, the nation and
ultimately the world. One can think of it as an electronic automatic nervous system extending into all areas of the social complex.”
Obsolete Monetary System: “Our current monetary system is not capable of providing a high standard of living for everyone, nor can it ensure the protection of the environment because the major motive is profit…In a monetary system purchasing power is not related to our capacity to produce goods and services. Today money is used to regulate the economy not for the benefit of the general populace, but for those who control the financial wealth of nations.”
Resource-Based Economy: “Simply stated, a resource-based econ
omy utilizes existing resources rather than money and provides an equitable method of distributing these resources in the most efficient manner for the entire population. It is a system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter, or any other form or debt or servitude…Earth is abundant with plentiful resources; today our practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter productive to our survival.”Like I said, I found that some of the descriptions, particularly of the cybernated government, to be a combination of simplified polemic with condescension and some unrealistic observations. There is a kind of tension in the arguments
that in some cases detract from some truly interesting and intriguing ideas. I know what it is… this all reminds me of a hodgepodge Italian Wedding soup of old and new pulp science fiction with some Granola thrown in for spice. The words reflect an edgy new-age pseudo-science that doesn’t inspire confidence in the scientist side of me. Yet, the artist dreamer in me soars with the fantastic imagery and wonderful concepts. I want to embrace the magic. The lofty ideals. It’s too bad the rhetoric gets in the way…And the words. They speak to wonderful concepts and a society that is peacefully and serenely integrated with this planet. But a critical word here and there gets in the way or is left out. Take this sent
ence, for instance: “All of this could only be accomplished in a resource-based world economy where all of the world’s resources are held as the common heritage of all of the earth’s peoples.” Held by whom? And what about life other than humanity? The environment? The very use of the word “resource” implies exploitation. And there is so much unsaid that boggles the imagination.Heck, maybe all they need is a better copywriter…
Check out the site and let me know what you think. It’s definitely worth a discussion.
Nina Munteanu is an
ecologist and internationally published author of novels, short stories and
essays. She coaches writers and teaches writing at George Brown College and the
University of Toronto. For more about Nina’s coaching & workshops visit www.ninamunteanu.me. Visit www.ninamunteanu.ca for more about her writing.
177 comments:
Placed in the context of current and future problems, none of which are yet being addressed in any serious way, this project is pure frivolity. Just one more in a long line of idealistic utopian projects that will go nowhere. Arcosanti comes to mind.
For those of you who aren't familiar, Arcosanti is the name of the experimental town whose construction began in 1970 north of Phoenix. Designed by architect Paolo Soleri, it uses the concept that he coined arcology (a "portmanteau" of blended ecology and architecture) as an eco-friendly town; essentially a city whose features integrate with the environment and minimize the destructive impact on the earth. Here's more about the town in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcosanti
As for these projects going nowhere... I'm not so sure about that. Albeit their utopian nature and paradoxical combination of naive rhetoric is hard to take seriously--there is always something to be gained from such visions. These are not unlike the visions portrayed by science fiction writers of new and different worlds (see my next blog post... :) ... We are all writing our future...
I hadn't heard of Arcosanti.
I'm more optimistic about those projects. They seem to cover a higher level of design and thought that has yet to be sought by most.
Yes, they have certainly put a lot of thought into their designs. They are visually stunning and attractive (but they somehow remind me of that popular British puppet TV action show I used to watch as a kid ... I think it was called "Thunderbirds")... LOL! Anyway, I digress... I DO like their optimism and willingness to share a wonderful vision to the extent they have. Things to ponder...
When I looked at the pictures, the first thing that crossed my mind was, "Where are all the people?" ..."Is this place habitable?" What about children and families and education and cultural diversity and community events? I suppose it looked all too automated. I realize that the designer was probably trying to address the inequitable distribution of the earth's wealth and resources but sounded a lot like he figured if he designed this wonderful city, people would fall into place. I congratulate his wish for a better future and his ability to think out of the box. Now we need someone to take his ideas and make them workable.
I know it takes a leap of faith to get anywhere interesting, but that's a heck of a jump.
I find it difficult to believe people could be enticed to switch to a barter-only market system.
I couldn't agree with you more, Nina. Beautiful, inspiring images fill of clean, pristine architecture. In this currently dysfunctional economy, who wouldn't desire the vibrant green and utopian self-cleaning white towers?
Unfortunately, as with countless other dreams and confections, the issue of a viable, efficient power source continues to be a rude awakening. =\
I thought the same thing, Baby Brie! LOL! All a little too clean...HAR! And we all know what happens when assumptions about people are made... Certainly not giant leaps, like Heather mentioned.
Yes... that is the definition of a utopia, isn't it, Blackburn... it takes more than imagination to realize a dream.
But, seriously, am I the only one who believed the Thunderbirds?
Ah, the classic utopian dream. The "needs" of all are taken care of allowing homo sapiens the freedom to be artistic, to study, to create and possibley evolve. The problem is that humans are involved!!
Maslow's Triangle postulated that once one's basic needs (food, shelter) were met and that provisions for the future and continuance of the family were assured that one would then be free to attend to higher purposes and devote excess capacity to philanthropic service.
The assumption is that all members of society will do their best to support that society and take only what they need.
Unfortunately, there are those who feel that they need a lot more that others. There are those that feel that if they are working harding than others they deserve more than others and there are those who will do as little as possible and take as much as they can get.
There will be those who will do whatever it takes to be in charge of the distribution system.
There will those who will come to realise that the cost of Utopia in terms of freedom and choices is too high.
A Brave New World.
Nina - Don't forget, the Thunderbirds were a police style organization fighting against evil doers and assiting in disasters.
Limberger
LOL! Thanks for your insightful comments, Limberger.
Yes, I remember the premise of the Thunderbirds now! ... And very much in keeping with the "benevolent" wishes of those in charge of said "utopia"...
Here's what Wikipedia says about Utopia:
"Utopia is a name for an ideal community or society, taken from the title of a book written in 1516 by Sir Thomas More describing a fictional island in the Atlantic Ocean, possessing a seemingly perfect socio-politico-legal system. The term has been used to describe both intentional communities that attempted to create an ideal society, and fictional societies portrayed in literature. "Utopia" is sometimes used pejoratively, in reference to an unrealistic ideal that is impossible to achieve, and has spawned other concepts, most prominently dystopia.
The word comes from Greek: οὐ, "not", and τόπος, "place", indicating that More was utilizing the concept as allegory and did not consider such an ideal place to be realistically possible. It is worth noting that the homophone Eutopia, derived from the Greek εὖ, "good" or "well", and τόπος, "place", signifies a double meaning that was almost certainly intended. Despite this, most modern usage of the term "Utopia" assumes the later meaning, that of a place of perfection rather than nonexistence." ...
...so, even its definition embraces contrast in its interpretation. I must confess to leaning on the "idealist" side of the balance between blind optimism, realism, and cynicism (blind pessimism)... And, yes, there is always a realistic cost in any ideal, usually borne out of naivity and innocence (the originator of trust, faith and hope)... You mention Brave New World (no doubt referring to the title of Huxley's classic distopian "utopia") the lines of which were uttered as irony in Huxley's book by the character John and based, again, ironically on Shakespeare's original line by the truly innocent Miranda (in The Tempest), who, after remarking on how beautiful humanity is, proclaims: "O, brave new world that has such people in't!"
Somewhere, between the purity of innocence and the sourness of jaded cynicism through experience lies a place where most of us reside.
There will always be a place for utopian literature, utopian social design and utopian politics... If nothing else, it stirs our imagination and our thoughts up from the mundane.
It is the stuff of dreams...
p.s. for some lively discussion on the Venus Project--politics, philosophy, social design and planning, city planning, and all manner of things--check out this forum (On Little Bites of Point), which contains over 500 comments:
http://www.pointbite.com/2008/10/08/zeitgeist-addendum-and-the-venus-project-hoax/
Promise you'll come back here and tell me about it... :)
I'm familiar with Thunderbirds, but only by reference. What aspect of their culture are you referring to?
Several attempts to revive the franchise. Large writeup at Wikipedia.
I was initially thinking of and referring to the physical nature of the sets and designs of the show. The sets were elaborate "dioramas" of neat places that looked a lot like the elaborate constructions shown in the Venus Project... in Limberger's reference to utopias, he brought up the ironic fact that the main characters of the Thunderbirds were part of a futuristic "police/search & rescue" squad set in 2026-2065.
Ah... yes, I've always been fascinated with the idea of self-contained cities, and even more when it's a massive spacecraft, like an ark.
Loved the concept of 'The Starlost', even if the low budget resulted in some laughable episodes.
HAHA... Yes, they were all kinda cheezy back then. Kier Dullea, right? I loved him in 2001...speaking of self-contained cities... you get a lot more about my envisioned self-contained city, Icaria, in my prequel to "Darwin", called "Angel of Chaos"... out this fall with Dragon Moon Press big grin)...
A plug! :D Another book to put on my list.
Yup yup...HAHA! Yeah, thanks, Blackburn!
Held by whom?
By no one but our Genius Of Design aka GOD.
^o*
Indeed, TJ, indeed...God and Nature's wisdom... our best instructors
Discussions about the inconvenient implications, never mind the wild impracticality, of all this are entirely beside the point.
The Venus Project proposes all-new cities be built from the ground up in the model of the experimental one planned for “Venus, Florida,” about which the org’s website tells us….
“Fund-raising efforts are currently under way to help support the construction of this first experimental city.”
And there you have the entire soup-to-nuts reason for the Venus Project’s being. Not to build the city, of course (which would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, never mind getting the thing zoned) but to raise funds for it.
Factnet says the way to know a dangerous cult is it has two aims only: Recruit more members and raise money. The Venus Project? Check and check.
I can’t resist adding, though, that Mr. Fresco shrouding his true aim with all that mumbo-jumbo about ABOLISHING money is misdirection so canny I almost have to concede his followers’ point that he is some kind of genius.
LOL! Great comment, Mattheww! Yes, the irony of "genius" indeed... There are many kinds of geniuses...
I fully support the venus project and the zetgeist movement. This current system is failing and although this idea is far fethched and hard to beleive in, so was the world being round at one time, or in evolution. Everything is changing all the time, maybe we should try something new.
Unity. Peace. Love.
-Amanda Kl.
I forgot to say that the houses already exist that J. Fresco designed. This isn't too far out there. It's smart and necessary if we are to evolve into something better instead continuing this path that will lead to WW3 and the end of many living things. I mean, electricity is a pretty amazing thing. Why not treat this project as you would support the talk of electricity if we lived in the 1800's or whenenver (the time doesn't matter, the idea and point do).
Unity. Peace. Love.
- amanda kl.
Yes, let's keep dreaming...
Once upon a time, the Earth was flat and the sun revolving around it. Telling the contrary would send you to the stake.
Look at the way you live today and compare that to how your parents or grand parents were living at the time, and tell me again that the Venus Project is totally bogus.
My grand mother says that she saw the biggest scam of her life when they showed the movie of the first men walking on the Moon :D
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Now I don't understand why it is so impossible to imagine a world in which there is no need for money. I just believe that it is impossible to keep on living as we do today, destroying consciously the environment in order to create more financial profits.
I am a fan of Huxley, I read the Island and loved everything he had to say about education...
People open your minds, have we been so well formatted that we can't use our imagination anymore ?
The Venus Project is linked to the Zeitgeist movement, so I invite you to go and check the FAQ's on the site, any other questions, feel free to ask because we will be happy to continue working on how to improve that project, which we state, right from the beginning, is not perfect. So your input is welcome, constructive criticism is always good.
Zeitgeist Activist
WoW!!!
a canadian talking about like she knows what the american lifestyle is like. I know the Venus Project ideology affects every aspect of the earth. Ive lived in Los Angeles my whole life and I know how ugly in can get. There is more people here everyday, there is more crime every week and less money to go around.
This so called monetary system is a dead end. If you watched zeitgeist you would know it's only a means for the government to enslave the human race. I admit the Venus Project has its flaws but nothing is perfect in its beginning stages.
Let me remind you about the crazy story of two guys who wanted to fly like birds. Sounds crazy right?
Of course it sounds like science fiction but hello every technology we have now was science fiction at one point.
At least the venus project and zeitgest movement is trying to improve and help the way of human life.
The comments here from the nonbelievers are so ridiculous, it doesn't even make sense. I dont think they've even seen zeitgeist with their nonsensical dribble.
Nothing in this article gave me any reason to think the Venus Project isn't a legitimate option for humanity. The author is guilty of many influence principles or persuasion techniques . Watch the movie "Thank You For Smoking" for an example of the measures of influence this author is using. Do not make up your mind based on this article.
About the venus project. . .
If you are going to say it's naive or ignorant to the way the world actually works, maybe read the entire site first. Education, food, living arrangements have been thoughts of. It would not be a barter environment, it is basically putting everyone in a situation to be honest. Without the challenge of competition to survive, we would be living in a world where you can do/have everything without having to step on others for it.
Medical fields are relying more and more on machines rather than gut instinct, although instinct shouldn't be ruled out, machines provide a far more accurate assessment. Based on family size, and having a machine determine your needs for food, you could easily figure out the amount and ingredients required to sustain you, as well as the food being tasty. Apply that kind of thought process to the whole venus project and you might be getting out of thoughts related to today's world and more into the idea of a completely different, (better?) world.
Most of the venus project maintains that we will eventually have to use the sea for a living environment and by living in a hot climate where the ocean is the most important, I would think that many would love to live near/on/beneath the sea. Zoo's are a sad place for animals to dwell but we have them because we want to see the way animals live. Imagine if you just lived in that place to see them act as they normally would, and it doesn't cost you a dime or put you in an unsafe situation.
Money is the cause of stress in our lives which usually results in all the other problems we deal with daily. If your partner doesn't have a job and the market is horrible, even though that is the case, you will be angry when you come home and there is no food. You will hate going to work because most jobs that have to be filled are crap, your home life sucks because you cannot afford all the things you are being told make us "awesome, beautiful people." When that happens and your best friend or family can afford those things, that create's tension and competition with the people you love.
Please, please, please open your minds to something that is possible with the right ideas and acceptance from you, all of you. What if it could be like this, what if it could and we all say "no" just to keep our crappy, stressed out, falling from love, lives.
Maybe it's just me and I'm just a hopelessly optimistic person. But, I know which way I'm going.
Thank you for reading!
600 yrs ago the Americas were unknown to the those in the East. We need to unite and get off this rock. What is frivolous is the constant pursuit of money to live. The Venus Project does not claim to set up a utopia. Rather they seek to make a better system than what we have now using the scientific method. Sounds logical to me and really not that far fetched. This can be done and I hope others will open minds and hearts to this approach.
I do so agree with you! We DO need to change our cultural paradigm, which is "money" based...or more to the point "me" based... If you can come up with a way to change the very nature of how most of us think (e.g., from a selfish to a more altruistic way) you will have come up with NIRVANA... I'd like to think it is possible. I HAVE to think it's possible and that there is hope. I have a little theory about it, in fact, and it has to do with CLIMATE CHANGE, harsh environments and humanity's evolution... :)
:)
:)
... more later...
Hope lies in dreams, in imagination, and in the courage of those who dare to make dreams into reality—Jonas Salk
“To not dare is to have already lost. We should seek out ambitious, even unrealistic projects…because things only happen when we dream.”—Andrée Putnam
Keep dreaming.
Some people should actually research TVP before commenting. There is no "barter system" for example. Jacque Fresco blatantly states it isn't going to be a "utopia". It has nothing to do with socialism or communism or technocracy.
I should know - I've met him in person and discussed these things. Travel to Venus, Florida and actually visit the site. There is so much more than just a few vague "lines" you have heard mentioned. It is much, much more in-depth. Take the tour, listen to him, then form an opinion.
Look, I'm no scientist nor would I consider myself highly educated. However, regarding Fresco's vision of the future is not a "barter-only" as one commenter noted, instead it is based on the capabilities to mass produce not just a product, but the best of a product that will last the longest and be the most efficient of it's particular type, as well as have as little impact on the environment as possible. The point is to allow anyone and everyone to have access to all products and to have input in making them better. The resource part of it is renewable, ergo it's an endless supply. How can allowing machinery to take jobs away from humans be a bad thing? Under the current capitalist system, it happens and then those people have no money to survive then turn to the gov't to support them. This dream society allows us to live more leisurely, not unlike how we live more leisurely now compared to, say the average human during 1850. With access to limitless resources (products and energy) humanity can truly achieve an equal footing among all people while eliminating the worst problems in our current society such as war, poverty, disease, environmental destruction, etc.
Go to YOUTUBE and search on The Venus Project/ Zeitgeist Movement Activist Orientation Part 1
There are 10 videos in all which give more in depth details.
However it does not explain how to transition from A Monetary System to a Resource one. That would be the key
What I do agree with is that if everyone is giving free shelter food, clothes and essential products for free then money is out the window and so is working because at a basic level that is why most people currently work.
And if you haven't noticed, jobs are getting more scarce these days causing more people to not be able attain these basic necceseties
Thanks, Ivan and others... interesting thoughts. Especially about the whole money part. What you're talking about is essentially about altruistic behavior. That's the core of this whole argument and why some consider it untenable shlock and others dream of its attainment. It comes down to our own philosophy and whether our values come from the heart or from superficial things. And whether the glass is half full or half empty...
The Venus Project lost my interest in the first 5 seconds.
Why? 2 things:
1) Shopping Cart on front page. A 'complete redesign of culture'? I think not.
2) 'Get Involved'...er.. by buying things.
Its predictably exploitative and cynical but expect more (a lot more) such palatable new age techno-bullshit in the near future.
Ive read most of these post and sadly, the mind set is the same which is why "things" are the same. Wake up people. This system dosent work that we have now, so why continue with a broke system because we over think or over question something new. And if you think the system aint broke its only because it hasent hurt you...yet! ask the millions of starving homeless people how well the system works. Im afraid Its going to take a global catastrophy that anialates most of the population before people wake up and realize money isnt the solution, because it will only be good for fire fuel then
I agree with you, Sam... when "exploitation" accompanies "altruism"... it's no longer true altrusim.
Anonymous, yes, we are sadly in need of a paradigm change. Climate change is showing us that. But money isn't the problem... it's just the symptom. Greed is the problem.
Hmmm... shall I remain a sentient human being or blindly become an automated drone in another ugly city based upon science fiction imaginings of what Atlantis may have looked, governed and behaved like. I choose the former, as my brain is too "simple". The Venus Project and the Zeitgeist Movement are the stuff of intellectual flotsam concocted by Jacque Fresco, whose ideas would serve to work much better on a very small scale, like a building, or a commune out in the desert. The mock-up he presents, if fully realized, would either collapse from its overwrought utopian frivolity or succumb to a totalitarian regime where the "citizens" are enslaved by the new dogma. Their heart's desires would never qualify. Adolph Hitler would have loved this.
I support the Venus Project.
As a human being I know that the Earth has enough resources to go around... on the contrary, as a citizen of the current economy we live in, I know there is not enough money to go around. So, if we all want a better life for ourselves and our future generations, why keep living in a fake economy that doesn't (and can't) provide for everyone?
It makes sense to work toward a better future for all by leveraging current and new technologies.
In the current economy, I fear the day I am down on my luck for too long because it will chew you up and spit you out (i.e. homelessness and begging for a break).
If you don't have dreams, you don't have much at all.
I support the Venus Project idea.
It can be achieved, it should be achieved and it is possible. This is more or less what over 100 best minds have said in my forthcoming book "World Without Wars". This is not utopia, but oughtopia -- what ought to be. And to those who say it is impossible, I say, impossible is I'm possible.
www.healthwisdom.org
It should indeed be more difficult for a human being to imagine the world the way it is right now than to imagine the world the way the venus project outlines it! Continue to share the knowledge and the ideas--the truth will succeed, we just need to share it.
I believe it can work.... It will need a military to protect it or the project will never survive.
All the people who support the monetary system are either rich or ignorant to the fact that its a scam. As far as the venus project trying to raise money it's common sense they need to convert money into land before they can start living this way. You can't just point at a spot and say we will build it here for obvious reasons. Once this money is converted then they are able to start living in a different manner and once this new way of living is expanded enough the old way will fall to the new one but i guess it couldnt hurt to follow the money bcuz of course there is the possibility its accumulating in his bank account and hes just drawing some pictures to sell an idea but personally i think hes sincere and only time will tell, i would like to hear about control are ppol going to be completely free or partialy, will people police them selves. Because as soon as a society has an authority figure its no longer free, and id also want to know how they feel about biometrics because my body is mine not societies, also are their going to be illegal plants in this society?
I completely disagree with the Venus Project. It is creating socialism with a shiny shell. Where is the Constitution this whole time? Our founding fathers had it right when they created our government.
For people that think the Venus Project is BS, you are most likely one tracked mind or uneducated about the issues. Of course it would be difficult, but the future of the human species and the earth itself depends on our ability to treat each other.
The point is the road that we as humans are on, is destined for destruction. We need a 180.
Jaques Fresco has worked a lifetime on these ideas. He is 90 something years old and will if nothing else leave us with some amazing ideas for living. I agree that capitalism is not working but people can't "imagine" a world with no possesions yet. I think we need a huge shift to make something like this work. I believe it will come faster than you think.
Yes... we are definitely poised and primed for a change in our social paradigm and "ideology"... the traditional laissez-fair Capitalist model that embraces whatauthor Ayn Rand calls "rational selfishness" just isn't doing us justice. I talk about it in this post of Alien: http://sfgirl-thealiennextdoor.blogspot.com/2009/10/in-search-of-new-paradigmpart-1-is-our.html...
We do have other choices... and some of us are making them...
my biggest issue with the Venus Project is the fact that it doesnt take so very much into account. for example, in this utopian society, what exactly is the solution for the mentally ill or the sociopathic? what do we do with the criminally insane? or just criminals in general? what about those who truly just want to see the world burn?
dont get me wrong, i think the idea of a "perfect" world, but i know full well in my very best and most easy moments, there was still a sociopathic desire to just make others miserable. theres no greater high than bullying, that i have found, and i can only imagine the absolute need to for someone who is truly ill or deranged.
Trixie, you speak as if you either missed the part, in Zeitgeist, that most criminals are criminals due to circumstantial conditioning of their respected social classes, or you didn't watch it. There is Zeitgeist and a second film, Zeitgeist: Addendum. TVP is mentioned in the second film as well as many FAQs and common concerns about a shift to this new way of living.
As for the insane or physically/mentally disabled, I am almost certain more 'abled' people would be more than willing to help the aforementioned types if they didn't have to worry about aquireing currency to survive. Who knows, if more people are devoted tech, perhaps we could simply zap that unfortunate mental gene.
Anonomyous you contradicted yourself, if you were asking would there be illegal plants. There can't be illegal plants because his model does not have laws, but instead smart technology.
@Xavier, where did Anonymous contradict himself? And where did drugs come into this?
Drug users have been asked about before, and like other people who are sick, will be treated as such. There are two avenues: (1) said individual acknowledges his problem and goes to an infirmary of his own volition, or (2) commits a crime, is apprehended, the crime is determined to be drug induced, and is again sent to the infirmary for drug rehab.
This isn't rocket science, but critical thinking is required on the part of the skeptic.
There are other issues with the Venus Project that you could point out as potential faults. This one, very clearly, isn't one of them.
People sure like to write their own versions of the venus project into their criticisms. Frankly most of you must have been to busy thinking up problems during the film to listen to what it actually is. Saying things like human nature will never change is like 100 years ago saying women will always be our slaves. You forget how small you and your perspective are in the grand scope of history, things change history only repeats itself when we continue to live in a hierarchy you have never seen anything else and you certainly have never seen the Venus project in action. Try educating yourself and drop the ego of needing to be right about something the wise old/young pessimist is so cliche..
Jaque Fresco said himself " there are problems with the plan but its better then what we have now". Take the Nationalist Socialist movemant aka Nazi party. Take away the immoral and evil racial views of this philosopy and are left with several beneficial ideas which are being practiced by some nations today . If you read the 25 point thesis of the National Socialist movement you will see it contains basic left wing and right wing principals. Im not advocating the Nazi agenda Im just using them as an analogy. sure there are problems with the Venus Project but we are all indoctrinated into our current beliefs that make this utopia unrealistic.
Jaque Fresos designs are his own vision of the future and not written in stone. He makes a good and painfully logical point that resources based economy would be better then the monetary system. The more people that are freed up from mundain tasks will lead to an acceleration of ideas and technology, education, medicine, phychiatry. For more imformation on this last sentence go read ' Guns, germs. and steel; the fate of humanities' by Jared Diamond. He is another groundbreaking free thinker ahead of his time like Jaque Fresco.
Please stop addressing The Venus Project as an utopian society. It has nothing to do with an utopia, and if you would just take the time to educate yourself about Zeitgeist and The Venus Project you would realize this yourself just as I have. Please watch "Zeitgeist" and "Zeitgeist Addendum" and watch the multiple interviews with Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph. If you watch and read about them and still think The Venus Project is an outrageous idea then please email me. I would love to discuss this with anyone!
The Venus Project is the way of the future. The resource based economy they speak of actually holds human value in the fore front. Why is this notion so difficult to understand? Have you never questioned why some humans have so much while others have so little? Humans life shold come first. If an idea like the Venus Project is proposed, oppostion rains in from all angles by those who are so blind to see that the comfort of our current situation is no comfort at all. Unless you benefit from this current system, how could you call such a notion ridiculous? Ridiculous is the fact that I earn more money doing something that is super easy (office job) than when I had to work with my hands and the work was challenging (pipefitter). This has always befuddled me. How can this be? The less one does, the more money he is paid? That is when i began questioning my whole reality. The world seemed "fake" to me, made-up. This goes against all logic. But logic is not the point of the monetary system.
The way to transfer from this system, as Jaque states, will most likely be a complete fall of the current system. But the Government has decided to step in "for the sake of the people" and save all of these banks and major corporations who run themselves into the ground, yet we, the "working" class, is forced to pay for it, like it or not. The govt will not allow the system to completely fail, because then, and only then, will people realize that money equates to NOTHING in the real world. It is almost as if we live in a fake world, made up by people that were way before my time. And the powers that be benefit from our woes. The system does not fail the elite. But we outnumber the elite. What would they do if we ALL were on the same page...
The people with negative comments probably think negative of themselves and everything around them. They will ridicule everything foreign to them, as they fear to realize the truth. Wilhelm Reich wrote "Listen Little Man" to address these people, and the afflicted should all read it to gain some insight into who they are, and why they are who they are and , most importantly, how to be honest with oneself.
Americans, we have lost most of our rights, and the ones that remain have been tainted. Anyone believing that they are free in America are under a false misconception. Read the Bill of Rights. Actually read our Constitution. Actually read...anything. We are becoming an uneducated, entertainment crazed nation.
The Venus Project embodies the human spirit. The people in charge of the world today fear this. Think for a minute. There are people, just like you and I, who actually have the power to make positive changes happen. Yet they fail us at every turn. We elect president because we want to be a part of history? WTF does that even mean? So lets vote for the half-black guy because hes the first half-black guy to run this nation? And we dare question why the world functions as it does? WE HAVE BECOME FOOLS! The race of the president DOES NOT MATTER. It proves nothing about how far America has come as a society. I am sick of this notion. It was allowed, not taken. Allowed by those who control these things.
Open your mind. Altruism is not human nature, nor is being deceitful. I have been both in my lifetime. Human nature is whatever we believe it is. So the next time you see a homeless man, are you going to think about how he can get a job like you, or think about how his/her life was a different deck of cards than yours, and you can only do so much with you have available to work with? So, i have had both thoughts. Which one was human nature and which one was a product of my environment?
Jeremy said... You see this is the problem with humanity! As soon as anyone has a idea of anything, we as a people are brainwashed to believe that we must do everything in our power to prove this person wrong! Get your head out of the political bullshit, and LET'S CHANGE THE WORLD TOGETHER! BEFORE IT'S TO LATE!
I have been casually following the Venus Project and The Zeitgeist Movement and frankly find it charming, however naïve, I love the many ideas. However, I do have to admit that it’s one thing to come up with a lot of pretty pictures, be it in words or actual pictures depicting a futuristic view life style. It’s another to come up with an actual plan of action that makes sense. Had these well meaning folks announced they’d discovered Big Foot people would be throwing money at them to continue their research, but for some obvious reasons they have had little to no attention for over thirty years.
What they are saying now is that we need to get the word out and inform folks, but inform them of what? I still haven’t heard a single word that points us in a direction. Now I’m not a scientist but even I know that if you don’t like the way things are and willing to express that dislike then be prepared to come up with an alternative plan of action, not just pretty pictures, and then be ready to put that plan into action.
I also find it hard to believe that people can live in a culture that doesn’t challenge them. If everything is handed to you by mindless machines there will come a time when all the scientists are gone and those machines stop handing out free-bees. All those contented humans will get hungry, greedy and dangerous in a short amount of time.
What I also get from this project is that the only people they are interested in communicating with are scientist, technical folks etc. We common folk who have spent our lives in Banking, Accounting etc have no place in their new world. Then they talk about ¾ of the world population dying of starvation and I immediately envisioned myself or others like me, homeless and starving while this idyllic world of brain children live comfortably in their new communities.
Again, I like the dream but the skeptic in me wants to see a real life plan.
I wish that more projects existed that had a directive that focused more on creating a paradigm shift concerning the perception of self. I believe that if an open mind is convicted to seek out enlightenment(not in the spiritual sense)that nothing save maybe death could possibly stop that mind from continually philosophizing about life.
Believe it or not...it is quite difficult for some people to think outside of a box...It can be sincerely terrifying. For them...opening the mind is as difficult as stepping on a crack is for someone with extreme obsessive compulsiveness. For those who fret easily...imagine the fear you might experience were you sky diving without being informed that you have a parachute. If we can not think of more creative ways to persuade the general populace to view reality itself differently rather than the reality of the corruption in the world today...we will in no short time experience any drastic changes in the way the world functions.
Consider how many of the leaders and avantgardes in the world today might still be stuck in some sort of a box that is restricting their full potential as intelligent beings.
Don't get me wrong...The Venus/Zeitgeist Project is a more than respectable endeavor when considering how much the philanthropist/intellectual community isn't doing to make things better. I just think more focus should be put on square 1...the perception of reality/self.
I find it funny that a project like this is scoffed at because a person doesn't feel it can be done. Sustainable living, proper management of resources, freedom from drudgery, and the like are all things we want, yet it is often received with cynicism and dismissal. It is obvious the goal of one earthling community is inevitable, why not now? We have the technology, it is only the monetary system that makes this difficult. A system that breeds competition rather than supporting cooperation, which is what has brought humankind this far. I would rather be labeled an idealist than not try to help this become a reality.
Surely this project is not an original idea as evidenced by the comparisons to Huxley, Rand, etc. I'm glad that no one as of yet invoked Orwell to drudge up some fear sets...and there I go - but I'm not a skeptic. Have no fear, the Venus Project states that it is in no way Utopian or Orwellian. Ultimately, the Orwellian concepts in 1984 should be a fear all of us can share as a "common enemy" thus uniting us in a struggle to ensure that our culture does not descend into such a state.
I'm a bit disconcerted with a few of the skeptics comparisons to the Nazi culture. Clearly, many more comparisons can be drawn between the GWB era and Nazis than can between The Venus Project and Nazis. For that matter, consider the comparisons that can be drawn between GWB and 1984 (Cheney = O'Brien).
Please allow me to digress further. For those of you that are following my Orwell thread, consider this:
1. GWB enhanced the foundation for Big Brother to actually materialize more than any other leader.
2. Google is currently digitizing every book ever written. Let us hope the Ministry of Truth doesn't gain control of that resource.
It may never happen, but the foundation is most certainly there. Torture used as a means, now gone unpunished, and therefore able to be continued/invoked at a later date coupled with the perhaps unwitting centralization of all information by a private entity that can certainly be taken over by Big Brother.
So what's my point? Obviously, The Venus Project can lead to a Huxley or Orwell vision. We should be aware of those visions becoming our reality whether its this project or our present situation (i.e. Dick = O'Brien). For anyone to dismiss this project as naive or frivolous, constitutes a breach of intelligence. Technology can provide our overpopulated planet with efficient, sustainable abundance...all we have to do is put people before profit. Why is that seemingly an unattainable, lofty goal, classified as a cultural paradigm shift? Maybe it is...socialism equates to evil in America, right? There certainly are forces that trained me to think that as I went through the public education system. Of course, I'm reality based and can observe that socialism is vastly less evil than capitalism. Regardless, at its root, this project is trying to create a system that takes care of people through efficient, sustainable practices. How the can anyone think that's naive or frivolous or a bad idea? Imagine if we hadn't been technologically stagnant for a 1000 years or more because of religion. Imagine if as a species we had started out with this concept of efficient, sustainable practices. Imagine all the people...living in harmony...ooo ooo. Greed. Me. Me. Me. Me. Buy. Buy. Buy. Work. Work. Work. Debt. Debt. Debt. Yeah, intelligent people choose the latter, right? And Lennon comes to mind again...a working class hero is something to be.
Is anyone curious why there is so much hype going on about the Venus Project? The answer lies in the Zeitgeist Movement, which sole purpose is promoting the Venus Project. "Activists" are encouraged to use as many outlets as they can to "spread the word" and get more people interested in the Venus Project. They have about 370,000 members listed on their website. Then the curious wander onto the Venus Project website and either donate or not. In 2008 the Venus Project's NPO Future by Design made about $28,000. Figures from 2009 are not yet available, but it is sure to be substantially more due to all the free advertising it is receiving from the Zeitgeist Movement. Meanwhile the objectives, which are clearly stated on the Venus Project website, are to first sell their materials, and then proceed to make a feature film. In fact the Venus Project seems to be completely absorbed in its own self-promotion and movie production objectives that it forgot that its original intention was to build a test city. Members of the Zeitgeist Movement meanwhile are not given transparency of financial activities of the Venus Project. They are just encouraged to read and research more about the project and continue to spread the word. Dissenting views are not allowed on the Zeitgeist forum. Threads that offer opposing views, criticize, or demand transparency are often deleted, and the offending poster banned.
The director of the first two Zeitgeist films, made them on his own with little support. He has made no requests for donations in making the third, only suggestions for content. The films have always been free to all and always will be. Neither the Zeitgeist Movement nor the Venus Project are actively raising funds at the moment because there is no reason to, yet. True, donations are always welcome but the project is nowhere near the actual fund-raising phase in which unfortunately capital will be required to build the first city. But that is a long ways away. Support for the idea is needed first, hence the activism. I am a member of the movement and have never been asked for any more than my time, input, spreading awareness and combating misinformation and cynicism. There is no hidden scam here. I have heard the founding members of this movement speak for many many hours and I assure you they have nothing but contempt for money.
Zeitgeist members are encouraged to read and study a heap of materials in order to "educate" themselves and be able to "educate" the rest of the world. There are several books, speeches, and videos for members to listen to. There are weekly addresses given by founder Peter Joseph and the Venus Project. This is pure indoctrination tactics. Members become so absorbed in the fantasy of a new society that they forget the practical ways of attaining that society i.e. proving or disproving the claims that a Resource Based Economy is actually a viable alternative. Meanwhile members go out into the world and onto the net telling people about the Venus Project and directing them to their website. Funds indeed are being raised to support the Venus Project's movie making efforts - more indoctrination materials. Money is also being used to fund a world lecture tour for Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows to such destinations as Copenhagen, London, and Cancun. All of this is in plain sight on thevenusproject.com.
It is in plain sight because there is nothing to hide. Have you taken the time to read through the documents or listen to the radio shows? If you did you would recognize this is no more than a grassroots organization petitioning social change, not some nefarious capitalist scheme. There have been many people advocating this system who have been posting incorrect information or misinterpreting the message (i.e illuminati and similar conspiracy theories, 2012 associations, general lack of understanding of the scope and details of The Venus Project). The information posted on the ZM site is merely to clarify the direction. It is an insult to the nearly half a million members of this movement to think that we are all uneducated fools falling for some cult. The truth is, change like this cannot happen unless we receive the attention and support of millions. It is an unfortunate reality that this must occur within a monetary system but neither Jacque Fresco, nor any other person within the movement is in any financial situation to support a world lecture tour. In fact Fresco has put his 21 acre research facility up for sale to cover costs like this. It is quite surprising they have been able to accomplish this much without any fund raising event. Furthermore I think it quite telling that this sort of Anonymous cynical post (as the one above) aims to derail this movement by spreading misinformation with only fear and ignorance to back up their claims. By doing so you are only preserving the current flawed system. But perhaps that is your ultimate goal.
Facts and opinions have been stated. The readers can research the Venus Project and come to their own conclusions as to whether they agree or disagree with the the information presented. There is no need to engage in ad hominem attacks on individuals.
check the fanatics replying...they cant get enough of it.
the fact they are supporting a future city with no basis in rality and now makes no difference to them.
the fact the npo they support is making mony off them to make movies and adverts only.
all these walking talking advertisements, who used to be free thinking human beings, trapped in the mindset that they are changing the world for the better.
the movement itself hates dissenting opinions and locks threads, removes users and hates any facts against it...
free speech, the scientific method?
where is the evidence for this plastic circular domed city?
where are the scientists other than jacque and peter and roxanne validating this city and this trademarked rbe ?
nowhere !
30 years the venus project has been running and nothing has happned scientifically ever to prove it.
one year the zeitgeist movement has happened and everything has happened with its advertising.
keep selling the dreams guys, sell those dreams like good cult members
My claims are based on my in-depth knowledge of the subject at hand. It is an ad hominem attack to assume I am a fool. I'll restate this fact. As a member of this movement I have never been asked for a single penny nor have i donated any. I have no interest in recruiting you or anyone else. If you think everything is fine and dandy in this world then i leave you to that opinion and consent in this debate. I agree, that anyone following this discussion will indeed make up their own minds.
Peace.
Members are so passionate about the Venus Project that they tend to believe they are changing the world by engaging in arguments on the internet. They feel this way because of the rhetoric from Peter Joseph (who does not disclose his real name) and the rhetoric on both the Zeitgeist and Venus Project websites. The rhetoric, just as the article above states, leads one to believe that by supporting the Venus Project one will be helping to solve the world's problems. Obviously, members can't argue their way to a brighter future for all. What they need to realize is that anyone who goes around telling people how they SHOULD live and how the WORLD SHOULD be run, is going to be treated with skepticism. Their best argument is data and proof to support their claims. The activists fail to recognize that they are not participants in a humanitarian movement, but a very political one. The Venus Project and Zeitgeist Movement are a merging of the Technocratic Movement, and the New Left Movement of the 1960s, which is a tweaking of Marxism. This is not to state that the Venus Project is Communism, but a technocratic variation of it.
Ok, first it's a capitalist scheme now its a Marxist plot. These posts are all anonymous so it's hard to tell if I'm talking to multiple people or a schizophrenic. Ok, forget the ZM and TVP for a moment and lets discuss (not argue) the problem. My views are the same as they were before I ever heard of either of these organizations. I recognize that anyone who speaks out against capitalism is labeled a Marxist or socialist. I am neither. For me, it's all the same outdated imperialistic bull. Call it what you like, for me it is logistical reasoning. WE NEED A NEW SYSTEM. Capitalism is not working. I am South American and I'm sick of watching organizations like the World Bank and the IMF and corporations like IBM, JP Morgan and Citigroup systematically corrupt and bankrupt nations and steal their resources with their manipulation of the economic system. I, like many, are looking for an answer to this problem. I'm open to any suggestions you may have as a solution to the problems of poverty, war, pollution and corruption. I'm not interested in writing my congressman, I've done that. I've signed petitions, picketed, volunteered, donated to charities, but still the problem grows bigger. The unemployment rate continues to rise. I am in no way tied to TVP, it's just the best that i have found. But i do not know of everything that is out there. If you know of a solution to these problems, please, please send it my way. If you don't recognize there is a problem, well then this conversation is over.
Resource based economies dont hold up much hope for resources really do they?
I mean the very idea that they will be shared equally throughought the world doesnt hold up to your argument ' you are sick resources being taken by big companies.'
They actually distribute them throughought the world right now, for profit mind you, but then it does cost to get them in the first place.
So you propose digging them all up for free everywhere in the world, and giving them away for free.
Nice idea for the technological societies.
Terrible idea for the resources of the world, it will be the same thing going on, but instead of it being capitalist dogs, it will be idealist cats.
And likely more resource pillaging from earth, since you are trying to provide for the entire human species now, rather than just a minority of society.
Not exactly well thought out is it when you look at it ?
Paul,
The idea is very well thought out and includes some factors you may have not considered. A RBE does not mean exploitation of the worlds resources, which by the way do belong to every Earthling. The idea of ownership of land and resources is an outdated primitive human trait that is based on competition and perceived scarcity. RBE means that decisions are made, not based on the amount of money available, but on the amount of resources available. In this sense, resource means "the ability to accomplish the goal" not particularly oil, wood and water, though they are included along with labor, technology, and time. Another factor is TVP uses renewable energies, such as wind, solar, geothermal, wave and the like. This alone would considerably cut down on the current consumption of oil and pollution. In a transition scenario, old dilapidated buildings can be torn down and the metal and concrete can be recycled and used to build new homes. And lets not forget water desalination, this can create new resources where there were none. The purpose of an RBE is to stop the exploitation of resources and common things like over production and resulting waste. After a proper survey of the available resources, we determine, using simple algorithms how long these resources will last and what our allotted rate of consumption would be. This is logical and ethical resource management not further exploitation. The main thing to realize here is this isn't just an RBE it's a non-monetary system. There would be no pillaging because there would be no reason because there would be no profit to gain from it. I urge trace the world major problems problems to their source. I think you will find that profit guides the hands of our leaders more often than ethics. I hope this explained the idea well and thank you for taking the time to read it.
K
@Khan or The Savage Khan: You seem to be confused. I (personally) am not addressing you (personally) at all, nor am I trying to engage in an argument or discussion with you. I am stating my take on the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist Movement for everyone who bothers to read this article and the comments below. You are entitled to your opinion/disapproval of what I have said, but how can I converse with you when you have already made up your mind that I am trying to derail your movement and preserve the current system. I don't care who you are or what your motives are. It simply is irrelevant to this discussion. But if you demand that I provide you with alternative solutions other than the Venus Project, well I will oblige you. Instead of a materialistic view of the world as resources to be utilized by the public, I would prefer that people let go of the need to exploit all together. I would prefer to simplify life, both reducing work and consumption of materials. If you don't like the solution I have provided, then I can no longer help you. You have already discounted volunteering and donation, and that is something I believe can help with problems now as opposed to 100 years from now. You are in fact volunteering your time to the Venus Project by engaging people in discussion on the internet about it.
The point is (addressing the audience not one particular person) that there are many different philosophies on how to run the world. When any one political philosophy claims to be THE ANSWER, including Capitalism, Communism, Technocracy, Theocracy, or whatever, one should beware. There are elements to Capitalism that are valid as well as Socialism. All should be taken into account when planning the affairs of the world. There is no one right way, and to think otherwise is to close oneself to all possibilities of change.
Beautifully stated anonymous.
While the venus project members insist they have the answer, they really do have no evidence, other than sheer belief and determination to prove it.
It is an admirable trait to believe in something so much that you are willing to go out on a limb for it.
But if you are ignoring other methods and directions, and closing off the possibile uses of the many, then it is to your detriment.
It is easy for these members to take personal abuse when their ideals are addressed, but it would be more sensible for them to sit back and understand they are not the venus project itself, they are just fans of it.
dear khan,
i have followed the project, and the materials.
While I appreciate your answer, I feel you may be missing my point.
Who says that using the resources is the best thing to do ?
Who decided that the entire world needs technology to solve everything?
Have you stopped to ponder how using all these resources may affect the planet?
There are green methods of energy, sure, there are green methods of certain things sure, but on the whole there are not enough.
I am well aware of the profit system, yes certain individuals are earning more than others, yes there is an imbalance in power.
But there may be an imbalance in nature waiting round the corner if everyone has technology and everything they want, and earths resources are capitalised on.
The spread of the Venus Project’s political ideologies is an organized effort. If a member is having difficulty “debating” on the internet, they can appeal to the Zeitgeist forum and request backup. On December 30, 2009, The Savage Khan posted a link to this article and discussion with the purpose of soliciting help with dealing with “dissenters.”
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=231&id=213833
Not only is this a questionable tactic, but supports the claim that they believe that winning a debate on the internet somehow proves the Venus Project ideologies to be correct. The Zeitgeist Movement is an organized publicity campaign designed to gain support for the hybrid Marxist and technocratic political agenda of the Venus Project.
I did post that. I'm sorry if that seems deceitful to you but the conversation was one sided and I was at work. No one told me to do it.
I consent in this debate, again. I apologize for being an idealist. Blame John Lennon. Continue with your lives, I will do the same.
Peace
K
http://anticultist.wordpress.com/
Here is another blog critically discussing the zeitgeist movement and the venus project.
I must say I applaud you for your unbiased view of the Venus Project; I find far too many sites and blogs that continually bash the Venus Project, and making it into something it is not by utilizing tactics such as conflating it with Communism, Socialism, etc...
I appreciate that, thanks. This blog--and this article particularly--was written and posted to provide a platform for genuine, intelligent and useful discussion. I am happy to see that occurring here. The 82 comments posted so far span a wide viewpoint range and present some excellent arguments and interesting use of language...a study in itself!
Great ideal in many levels, I just see a few impossible tasks to overcome.
1) Crime free? From the lowliest despot to the governor of California, rape and sexually based crimes have occurred. These are NOT finacially or survival based motives. Plus, look at serial killers and even OJ... thoeir motives had nothing to do with money.
2) Demands of the people would be met? If you want something, you order it and it will be delivered to you... What about a Pepsi or a cup of coffee? How about a can of Tuna? What else would we end up missing?
3) Where do the people come from who begin the creation of all this? In other words, it will take a multitude of people to forget and give up any monetary form of lifestyle. This smacks of potentiality to become a cult mentality, something that could turn out to be akin to Jim Jones or the Hari Krishna.
4) Do away with the cities we have now and create new cities? Okay, I can understand that. But what do we do with the current cities?
5) How is any one of these cities created, muchless a global network of cities? Remember, they plan to abolish money, credit, barter. Oh yeah, they plan to come up with the resources to create these cities with your monetary donations! Is someone getting rich in the process? Does it seem a tad hypocritical?
6) Computers are smarter than people? Isn't a computer only as smart as the person who programs it? Let the computers control it! To me, two things ran through my head: a) the movies "the Terminator" and "War Games." b) the 1960's song, by Zager & Evans, "In the year 2525". Pay attention to the words of that song, then watch their videos again.
I agree, this current system needs a severe enema. But for the Venus system to even be remotely possible, something else must occur first. What would that be? How about the people taking back the planet from corrupt governments, law makers and the total monetary debt system?
How? The answer is easy... much easier than the Venus project. The people simply need to rise up against the current establishment. But not by violence, but in the example given us by Ghandi: non-conformity. If every single person refused to pay taxes, refused to have their cars registered, refused to pay utilities, refused to pay their parking tickets, refused to attend political rallies or even vote, etc... What are they going to do, throw everybody in jail? Granted, trying to convice nearly 300 million people, in America, to do this is almost as far fetched as the venus Project itself. Almost, but not quite.
I look at it this way, if we could get 20% of themtodo it, that would be 50 million people in the USA. Someone would notice andsomething could and would be done.
Anyone have a clue how to make that happen?
Instead of dreaming and commenting, take action.
The zeitgest movement is Still in it's infancy. But it's parts are all in place and ready to rock.this is not about architecture, this is about the corrupt and murderous monetary lords of our world and the real alternatives.
It may appear frivolous to some, but for me - it's the most articulate summary of the present state of affairs in our world. Sure, I don't agree with every single point - but on the fundamental reality of a monetary system that has enslaved me from birth, that is controlled by huge corporations dedicated to profit you have to ask - who owns the banks? (go find out for yourself!) and that we allow 12 percent of the earths population to starve to death while we fatted calves throw our 'resources' away as left-overs...well...bring it on and viva la revolutione!!!!
there are no boundaries on this earth, but mountains and oceans. We have the technology to spread our resources over the globe to benefit all....and using a freely available energy source.
I think that is incredible the guts that some individuates have to expose their ideas and beliefs to the maximum point, like all social system have deficiencies and virtues this will have as well, we are not perfect but is the time to begin changes, the environment, over population and abuse of the resources will cause eventually irremediable damage world wide, ones we cross that line theres no return so think twice before make any judgment and take the time to read, study and educate to offer ideas and proposals to create a better world for each of us.
I have high respect to Jacques Fresco ideas, they have winds of change, change that we need more than ever.
Just imagine almost the entire world population with access to the maximum elite level of education and more than half of that working in science and engineering, think what can we create........ just think......
a change needs to happen, it has to start somewhere, and it will only happen when people are open to change...
Zeitgeist members are generally aware that the Venus Project operates under a non-profit 501c, but they are blind to the fact that it is a for-profit organization as well.
http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_hxlxws
“Venus Project Inc is a private company located in Venus, FL. Current estimates show this company has annual revenue of $120,000 and employs a staff of approximately 2.”
The Venus Project, Inc. also currently operates under the name “Global Cybervisions” and was actually established in February, 1995.
Reference:
http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Venus/the-venus-project-inc-6481878.aspx
Donations to the Venus Project via their website go to their non-profit sector, but other revenues go to the for-profit sector, which is not listed anywhere on their website. The fact that the Venus Project is secretly operating under three names is dubious, since Zeitgeist members are currently laboring for the Venus Project under the impression that there is no profit motive involved.
Also:
Back in 1974, when Jacque Fresco of the Venus Project appeared on Larry King, he was misrepresented as having a PhD in Human Factors Engineering.
http://s463.photobucket.com/albums/qq360/pjcheat/?action=view¤t=jacquefrescoonlarryking1974-phdclai.flv
Notice how Fresco winces as his false credentials are read, but he does not clarify to Larry King that he is not a doctor of anything, but is in fact self-taught. This oversight is more likely to be fraudulent than innocent as detailed here:
http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/dr-jacque-fresco-phd-in-human-factors-engineering/#comment-135
So, has this guy actually got any cash for this utopia? I'd be interested to know how this is working out for him. What's the advertisement for his 'research facility' all about. I agree that this will be another case of history repeating. His plans are not practical and he's old. My money is on Jacques dying and everyone forgetting.
I wish to add, that he's trying to sell a grand idea. Where are the small steps. It's too grand. I think he'd be better off designing practical housing estates instead of cities under the sea. if Jacques gets the $650,000 he wants for his land he could build some housing that demonstrates his smaller idea's and he could gain a wee bit of credibility.
For those asking how are we able to convert from a monetary based economy to a resource based economy:
The resource based economy is not a transformation but more of an alternative.
When the monetary system fails (yes, it will fail. i will get to that later.) the resource based economy is an alternative. of course people will not willingly give up their possessions and move. but they will lose it.
more and more people are being replaced by computers and robots, more and more people are losing their jobs. because businesses are greedy, it is much cheaper to pay for a robot/computer to do the work than having to deal with people.
when most people lose their jobs nobody has money to buy anything businesses will not get any money and all businesses will fail. this is when the economy will collapse.
then comes the venus project.
the guy spent most of his life designing the society. any stabs you take at him, please research first. he probably already provided the solution to it.
and yes that includes "people wont be hoarding because there is unlimited products"
and "there will be unlimited products because it will be designed to be reused"
Hello all you would-be world changers. Let us work together to find all the solutions we need. My name is Robert Howes, I don't hide behind alias's. I'm 61 (born 7 March 1948) and I've been working on solutions to world problems for half a century and I think I have something to offer.
***
My ideas are similar to those of Jacque Fresco and Paolo Soleri, Buckminster Fuller and many others. We all have holes in our plans, but I try to find those holes and plug them. The various contributions above show there are good ideas and some misunderstandings that need addressing. Ideas don't change the world, only acting on ideas does. Unfortunately some bad ideas have been acted on in the past and good ideas neglected. I think there is a safe way to proceed that will also prove to be a quick way to bring about change. It is based on using all the human capital available to us, and that includes actual humans and all their accumulated worth which includes knowledge, skills, community and the material things like land, buildings and money. Yes, even money, that dreaded stuff that I think we would be better off without but that we have to wean ourselves off slowly over many years.
***
We cannot simply give up money without everyone agreeing, and in order to get everyone to agree we have to gradually make things cheaper at the same time as making the poor richer and the rich poorer by those who are able banding together to do for ourselves what at present we do through capitalists. If we cut out the capitalists we do not have to support their lifestyles and their power which comes from their money, or should I say our money.
I am prepared to answer any and all of your questions. The answers are ready. Ask your questions. Ask the same questions of Fresco or Joseph and compare the answers.
robertcircle1@yahoo.co.uk
Peace,
Bob
***
9:00 PM UK time
PS I live in Swansea, Wales, UK.
If I may bring up one point that I noticed, this Fresco fella is like 92 or more years old. According to film clips about him, he's been talking about and showing off his designs for habitats and such for over 40 years and yet none of them seem to been in modern society as yet. This idea of his might be 'pure frivolity' as Catana first mentioned, or it might be an option for a better world for us in the future. Either way, I doubt we will see it happen in our current time while the people behind the people who make the majority of the wealth of the world are still here.
A true savior of man kind, a savior of humanity, is not a person that is interested in a single belief or a single opinion, but someone who understands that no matter what there are many different beliefs and opinions throughout the world. We cant change that nor should we. Our differences are the things that make the world so great. The fact that you can travel to a different country and experience the different cultures of the world is what makes mankind so intriguing. Whether a tiger is from Africa or Vietnam it still has the same traits, the same goals as a the other. Men.....Man is the most advanced, the most devoloped species that this world has seen yet. I wonder....When will we start acting as such. Whether you are a christian, a catholic....whether you are muslim or buhdist, I just ask to take a minute out of your life. One minute from every other one in your life.....I want you to put politcs aside, I want you to put your religion, I want you to forget about your job, your obligations forget all of these things. For one minute picture yourself not just as a human with materialistic problems, put possesions aside, fame and fortune and for once picture yourself as a part of nature. A part of the program, the circle of life, a part of all other living organisms on earth. With all aside ask yourself, dig deep inside within yourself and ask one question. Forget everything that you were taught all of your life, dig deep in your soul and ask...What is the right thing to do? If everyone does that, then things could be different. Impossible...yeah I know right, impossible just like the moon, mars the universe and everything else that has been going on since the begining of time. Man...though we are the best thing the earth has seen, we are the worst. Jundging a person on the possesions they have....the money they throw around. A man is judged by the type of car he drives and the type of clothes he wears, we as a society in america that judge every fellow citizen around us by these things. We refuse to change and critisize those who offer new ideas of ways to change the world and ways to make things better....we do this instead of confiding in them and offering new ideas. Making it almost a sin to think out side the box, to think outside the old world that has been left to us by the failed efforts of our parents, for our children will forever pay for the mistakes of their fathers. As a new father myself, I ask myself every single day of my life, is this the world I want to leave for my son? I dont want to leave him with the burden of things that I should have changed and live through the hardships that I know I could have changed. I dont want to be an old man...looking back at his wasted life....thinking I may have made a good living, I may have made some money, I was pretty successful, I have a house that took me 30 years to pay off, I worked most of my young life away making sure of it, but wondering what it was all for. Was it all worth it, am I truly satisfied as a human. Will I see my young leading that same life? The life that I am leaving them to live. A life that they dont live for themselves, but a life lived for something else.
For the greater of what...a nation, a government, big business, or for the greater of the people. Its obviously not for the people, even the critics who will probably write things against this comment have to admit that. What none of us seem to ever understand, none of us across the world understand that the power of a nation isnt in its government, the power of a nation isnt in their military, it isnt in the money they produce....The power of a nation is behind the people and thier ideas. Their dared dreams and hopes. All the power is in our hands, but that power is a scary thing. We dont want to touch it, so we elect others to take it. Every other species on this earth doesnt do such a thing. No other living organism chooses their leader, that leader earns that title. No one wants to hold themselves accountable anymore. They dont want to be accountable for their actions, accountable to make decisions that affect others, so we put that responsibility in the hands of others.We let few choose the rights of many, we let few make the decisions of many. We've fallen into a life that is confortable, not a life that is truly satisfactional. We've become one minded, are we not all the decendants of inventors and explorers? Decendents of men and women who actually dared to dream. Satisfactional as not just an american (im american), not just as a human being, but apart of something so much bigger than all of that. Instead of using our advancement and dominance over nature as something that is good, we bully everything, we butcher and rape everything we touch. I'll tell ya, In school, as an american, you learn so much about the american indians that inhabited the land, I learned their customs and how they lived their life. They didnt have money, they had no such system. Instead, things they valued, and things they valued of others, they would trade, for a posession's worth is really in what you can get out of it is it not? They did things fine it seemed, until europeans invaded and mass forced them to adapt to a new way of living. Grant it there was still wars then between different tribes for who knows what reasons, but ya know.....I'd like to believe that us as a species, has evolved a little since then. Because that is what life in this universe is all about, change and evolution. If you are from somewhere like Italy, or france, or somewhere in the middle east, anywhere else, I can understand you believing a certain thing.....only because nations of older decent still use a lot of methods and beliefs of older cultures......but god damn it Im american, I wonder why havent we understood that yet. Whether your muslim living in america, buhdist, black, white, whatever, change, new ideas and rebellion is in our blood. All our ancestors came here in the search of a better life for their children, and their childrens children, a better life for all their generations, a chance, a slim chance to actually live as free men. If history was different....if our founding fathers were not successful....if england would have overcame a dream that was talked about in bars, pubs, households on thanksgiving......If England would have succeeded in demolishing a dream that so many have fought for before them......our founding fathers would have been considered terrorist. I ponder on that. Is it not to be truly noble in life to do what is absolutely right, even if their are very few that are behind you? To be the very best you can be......to hold yourself accountable.....not just for yourself, but for everything that happens around you. Is it not life that shapes us. The way things are now proves that tremendously, just look how we stay the same and follow old beliefs and old policies.....just because we feel we are free.
"Nothing matters merry when your free". Ask yourself how free are you? America, Im a vet of OIF, a former Marine, America, I will no longer accept the excuse that this is the greatest country on earth, if you dont like it get out. I wont accept things for the way they are for this was a nation founded on the fact that change is necessary, change is needed, whether it lead to rebelion or revolution...whatever it may need be, america whether you'd like to admit it or not, really influences a lot of the world.....almost all of it. But I dont think its cause we're the best, because we're the most powerful, not because we're dominant, but because americans really come from all over the world. But the fact we are from all over the world is what makes us so great. We're the minds of the decendents of minds who been to other places and done other things, minds that can share ideas of a better country, ideas of a better world... because we're from all over it. I dont know how many times Im around older people(Im in my 20's) and they all talk about the same things, how messed up the government is, how messed up the world is, but say they are too old to do something about it. Sometimes Im told Im a younger generation so I need to fix it. Im not going to leave that responsiblility to my son. He is too beautiful, he is too pure. I'll never forget the first time I held him in my arms, seconds after he first entered this fucked up earth, I saw him naked...I saw him helpless, and throughout all my tavels through the marines through every single year that I can remember living, for the first time ever I realized, as silly as it sounds, every single person on this earth is born naked and helpless, there is a beginning to every mad man, a beginning to every evil man, there is a beginning to every politician, to every dictator and to every genius.
We've all heard the saying we all put our pants on the same way in the morning, one leg at a time. I wonder for once will our nation, our continent, our world, for once at one time jump into their pants in the morning. Go against the grain, go against the norm, be that unpredictable part of nature. I dont want to be some sort of leader of nations, Im not trying to tell you the right way to live your life......Im just asking for once......if only once in your life......open your hearts, open your minds, if we all did this at once....all of us across the world, for once did this and came together, realized that the satisfaction of humanity isnt in the cash you have or your posessions, but what you give with what you got. You could have been born a bear, a cat a dog, a slug.....if you were born a human, you could have been born with an mental illness or some sort of life altering illness, poor in a third world country, but if your strong and able....you should do what every other part of nature does and that is contribute to the survival not only to your species, but to every other species on earth......Especially if you are apart of the most powerful and dominant species.....Especially if you are strong and able. You hold that responsibility. I know right...Impossible. People will be people, we can never change. But there are millions of people who are thinking that way out there. Millions of people throughout the world that I guarantee will agree with you that the world could be a much better place.....a place without war, greed, poverty or famine. There are more that will agree than disagree with this, but that is the dirty secret. Instead of getting behind each other and welcoming new ideas, we close our minds and bash those who actually have enough imagination....individuals who believe in humanity, believe man can be better, instead of appreciating that someone puts forth a new idea we bash them and scrutinize them about personal knowledge they share. Im quite aware that the things Im writing will more than likely get bashed by some, but I only hope that the personal thoughts.......No, not that...My personal feelings, I hope that people can only learn from a few things that I say and can take if just only one point from it. You can argue with a persons opinions, a persons thoughts and a persons decisions, but you can never argue with their feelings because feelings come from something deeper than all that. Im sure we all feel the world can be a better place, but the only way that is going to happen is if everyone comes together as one voice and says that. Thinking this is an impossibility is just being naive for, is the fact that life on earth itself an impossibility. A lot including myself would like to believe their has to be other life somewhere in this gigantic universe that is almost never ending. But living life that we know of is only here......this third huge rock from the sun. The impossibility has already happened. Men flying was impossible, the world being round was impossible. The fact that anything was bigger than our galaxy was once impossible.
Individuals are shaped into what they become, they are shaped by their surroundings and their society. They follow the old traditions and the old beliefs, when will we realize none of those methods work. We are a society educated enough on the psychological effects on human beings through life experiences, for it is not age that matures us it is experience itself. We know enough to look and say hey, this is not the way things should be, we are evolved enough to say ok it is definitely time for a change. As the young generation of, Im not going to say the most powerful country, but the most influential country in the world, we hold the responsibility to leave a better world to our children and our grandchildren. A responsibility to help guide or at least lead by example, the right way to be. Trust me, we are not as different as you think, the new fad will catch on. Throughout history, lets start with jesus christ, putting the religious part aside and more a historical part, lets look at him as more of a man than a martyr. He may not have walked on water or actually turned water into wine, but I believe he made the blind see and the deaf hear. Not in a literal sense though, but in the sense that he showed people the way to a peaceful life, the right life, people listened to him and about a world of harmony. He died teaching that word and I envy him for that.I would give up everything to be in his shoes, to do better for all man kind. I'm not religious in any sense, I dont chose any side in that aspect. Growing up in an american christian family, Ive heard all the legends and stuff, so Im not trying to preach religion to anyone. I just try to take things from every story I hear and every person I meet because I have believed for a really long time that you can learn as much from me as I can learn from you......Im opened minded enough to know that, but regardless of what religion you are, you have to appreciate a story such as the one of jesus christ, regardless of what you believe you must see the nobility and honor behind what he did.....not for himself but for the greater good of others. Whether this was just a fairy tale or fact, it doesnt matter, we all have a super hero we look up to and want to be like. He's mine. I dont believe in a religion at all really. I believe there is a god somewhere out there but not in any sense that has been written, but that there is a god of nature or a god of life of some sort. I definitely believe in all the science behind life, in fact that is mostly the motivation behind me speaking on this, the fact that I believe in evolution and change of not just man kind but of nature. Dogs just werent mans best friend, we domesticated them to be. We can learn more from them though than they can us, just pay attention to them and their actions, they are nature in a habitat. I believe in science but I am not so naive to say that their wasnt some sort of beginning to all of this and some higher action or power that started it all, because infinite past is just too hard to imagine, there must of been a beginning and something had to start it. I dont want to turn this into some sort of religious battle though because that is not what it is all about. Im just trying to make you think outside the box, think about how long this whole system we call nature has been operating the way it has been without laws money or possessions, but just the basic knowledge that your born helpless, but with what you need to truly survive, You live and then you die. Its what you do between all of that, that really matters. Its what you contribute to the entire operation that means anything.
We all have the genes of men and women who fought for human rights for thousands of years. I myself have genes from william wallace. It might be what brings the fight out in me.....the rebel. I just look at men like him, men like george washington. Men who had a better idea of a better life, because they wouldnt stand for the life that was chosen for them. Men who lost most of their battles, but ultimately won the war because they endured the hardships, and they endured struggles that should be wished on no man, but they did it for not themselves but for a greater cause. They endured through everything for the better of their fellow man. But they did not do it alone for no one man can take on a nation, but it was others who stood up and finally said enough is enough. If you are from other countries of other heritages, with other stories of brave men your people speak of, that finally spoke out and changed old policies....Think of them instead....Everyone has great people to look up to. Our power is in our numbers. As humans we have overcome many obstacles through life, why are we letting a higher power run our later generations. Man was proven to be born out of the mud, but if you dont believe that you must admit the fact that man, when he was born or created, was created or born free. Since then.....It seems we've been fighting to get that freedom back. Im no savior, profit, nor am I a genius. I dont have all the answers to all our problems, but that is why it isnt just about me because we are only as smart as those that are around us, so why not try to teach everyone, but not just of something new, but something they have already known their whole life, for one can search their entire life for the meaning of life, but what they dont know is that it is inside of them. The answer to all the problems of the world are inside of us. As Kennedy once said, another president I love, all our problems are man made, therefore they are problems that can be fixed by man. I would like to believe that us as a people have at least come to a point in evolution that we can understand that it is time to be out with the old and in with the new. Im not the smartest man in the world which most of you can probably tell by my misspelled words in this, but I know one thing, I am life smart. I also try to be as book smart as possible as well though because just as science can teach us so much about the future, so can history and the past. We can learn from the accomplishments and failures of our ancestors. We can make logical decisions, understand math and build buildings. We can advance our technologies and evolve our way of thinking and living, unlike any other species, we are the only ones who hold that power. We hold the power as people to control the outcome of our species. The only way there is going to be a change of things though is if we all stop hiding in the false security of our homes. If we stop hiding behind excuse instead of acting....just accepting things for the way that they are instead of they way things could be. Not should be, but could be because no one man has the right answers for everyone, One cant plan or build the perfect world, but we should thrive to make it a better world, that should be our goal, not fame and fortune. Humanity should be the ultimate goal. I dont want to be a martyr or some sort of leader. I respect george washington for when the colonists asked him to be king he refused and said that the new nation shall not be ran and dictated by one man, but the decisions of the nation should be decided by the nation.
I just want anyone and everyone who reads this to not bash my ideas or my feelings on the way things are, not because of personal insult, but just to open your mind and instead of wasting your time and energy on focusing on what you believe is the wrong things I say and instead, open your mind just a little bit, and just comment on how you really feel how things are. Present new ideas, your dreams. Share your life knowledge, we can all benefit trust me, but make sure your words are instead of ignorant and closed minded, have them be influential and inspirational. Every uprising has some sort of beginning just like every story. Every new beginning starts out with few though. But it is those brave few, the ones who faced many for the good of man kind, they are the ones to be appreciated. A coward dies many deaths, where the courageous die but one. Courage, courage is inside all of us if we just dig deep enough. I tell everyone I meet, anyone can be a marine, you just have to want to be and want it bad enough. I dont follow the venus project too much nor alex jones on that other thing you guys were talking about. Ive seen the movies and stuff but I think that if they want a real movement with everything then they are doing it all wrong way and they need a new face ahead of it all. No man or woman needs a leader, but everyone needs a guide every once in a while.....we're only human. As much liberty and free choice we have, all of us need guidance sometimes, but not the type that has been in placed for us. I dont want to be a leader of a movement, but I would love of help organize and help guide one for the greater good of man, but a movement cannot be started by one man. Their are so many facts and reasons I can reflect on that are examples of why their needs to be a change, but I dont feel I have to. Every human can just ask themselves what the right thing to do is and the answer lies within them. Its not about one government or one economy, but the rights as humans that you are entitled to. Do you ever sit back and think about what the four essential means for any living organism to survive is. Food, air, water, and shelter. Things that you should be entitled to as a species, but yet three out of four you have to work your whole life to obtain. One of then for the average person taking at least thirty years of their life to pay off. Nature provides all of these things for us but yet we put the power of distribution in the hands of others. We have to work our whole entire young lifetime to obtain these things. Me, the zeitgeist stuff and all that aside, I would love to be the guide, the organizer of the movement, the new movement by the people and for the people. I dont want to be a leader, just a guide and organizer, but the answer behind all of our problems are behind all of you. So many of you wrote great comments on here, even the negatives ones brought great points, but at least we're talking and agreeing that shit is fucked up. The answer is behind you though, I can preach and guide all I want, like the old saying, you can lead a horse to water but cant make them drink. Its easy to talk about all our problems, but actually doing something is the difficult part.
There are two types of people in the world, talkers and doers. The problem is there are too many talkers and not enough doers. It is time to do. If you enjoyed what I wrote here, If my words did not fall upon deaf ears. If my words actually touched you deep enough to at least knick a piece of your soul, pass this on to everyone you know. Regardless of who they are and their views. Pass on these words, if you only got one good piece of advice or one good piece of knowledge from this, spread it on to others. Our power is behind our numbers, teach the world, tell anyone wherever they may be. I would love to begin a movement, but I ponder if their will be enough doers to accomplish true freedom. Will this cause be all for not even though it is the true cause of all humanity, of all living things. We have run out of new lands to explore here on earth, there is no new world here to conquer or to start a better life, this is the world as we know it now. This is what we got. It is up to us to make it better for our children. I would love to quote we few we happy few by william shakespeare, but I dont know all the words, but I know what I took from it. What I took is this, Those of us who chose to fight, choose to join together shall know forever that we will never hold our manhoods cheap. That we went against the famine and the crown at all costs ensuring the good of man, the good of our children, not a few men. For such a change to come, it will take the devotion of everyone, but we cant use the excuse that people wont change, we have been changing constantly since we've been here. Such devotion that william wallace, george washington and others such as these, is the devotion I want to give to this cause but if I am the only one doing,than it is all for not, the world mainly relies on you. To give my life for the greater good of man would be to me the greatest honor of all, but I refuse to give my passion and devotion to such governments and policies that exist. I may not have been born on that side, but I was born on this side. I love that I was though because I know that us on this side hold the true power, not the other side that thinks they do. Whether we achieve that is up to you and me. Be as passionate towards life as you are about other things in your life. Get involved and hold yourself accountable. Look at all the responses and ideas in this blog, one little blog on the entire internet. Get the word out share your knowledge. Support project mayhem. Lets all throughout the nation just not show up to work for 3 weeks. What do you think would happen. We would flex our power and remind them that we are their strength. It lies within us. I cant help but wonder, why in a country that is so free, has complete dictatorship as soon as you walk into work. Most of our prime life is spent there as well. I think someone said already in here, dont pay your taxes, if everyone did that, they would have no power to do anything. What to do next, after we render the government powerless, well that is what we all need to be discussing now. Im tired of reading these sites and seeing everyone bitching about everything, god damn it, get up, lets charge, lets take back the republic, have the people take back the government. Stop Fucking talking about shit, and lets do something. Let us rally together in bars and taverns, let us meet everywhere and anywhere and plan for the great change. We can talk on here all we want but nothing will change until we do something about it. Lets do it, let us be known as the generation who took everything back. The generation that rose up and said we will not go quietly into the night. Let them remember us as the generation that helped shape a nation, that helped shape a world into a better place.
Rome was not built in a day, just like people wont change over night. My friends, there are dark days ahead of us, will you endure the hardships and if so will you be doing it for what is truly right? That is a question you must ask yourself. Am I on the right side? For some reason, religions interpret this a lot, but there is a constant struggle in life between good verses evil, what side will you choose, that is all it comes down to, good verses evil. False rights over human rights. Talk to everyone you see and everyone you meet about this. Tell them, teach them, share your knowledge with them, learn from them, tell them about this crazy comment that I just wrote, regardless of their opinion on it, it can only make them know a little bit more. Im not going to sign off here with my name just know that you already know me. You all know exactly who I am. Im your neighbor, your best friend. your teacher at school. Im the guy that takes your burger order and your financial adviser. You know me quite well in fact, Im your oldest friend and Im the new person that your getting ready to meet. Just know that I am all over the place and trust me I feel you just like many many others do. When you see me though, you will know for sure it is me, just open your mind and think about it. Let us take it all back.
I really feel anyone who considers this far fetched to be part of the problem. These ideas are just stepping stones for advancement. Tell me why we can't live in a world without war? We got to this point somehow, I'm sure we can get out of it. Complacency is what keeps us under the thumb of religion, government and banks. Society as a whole has decided this is how it is. What people forget to realize is thats how everyone thought 200 years ago, 500 years ago and so forth. Look where we are now. It's once again time to change and I feel our race has advanced far enough that we can shed the negativity and begin to see that we are all in this together. Society has overlooked how fake all this is, (politics, religion, government). These institutions were created out of thin air and designed to give you purpose. When your purpose is the same as any other animal on this earth. What that purpose is? I don't know. I do know what it isn't though. We have all the tools necessary to take care of this earth and each other. The human race is so lucky to be who we are and we waste it by having these institutions. These institutions have created social classes which in turn creates a negative form of individuality. Why are you better than the next guy? Because you're a christian? Because you're a politician? Because you have money?? What makes you worse than the next guy? Because you're on food stamps? Because you're unemployed? Because you don't have health insurance?? These forms of negative individuality is what keeps mankind from achieving the greatest things we can achieve at this level of our advancement. The only thing wrong with the aspirations of a utopian society is that getting everyone involved is an immense task. Of course many hands make light work. Don't lose faith in yourself or the man, woman, or child next to you. Look where popular belief has gotten us. Why can't we change the popular belief? I do not envy those who feel this is impossible. Get off your horse and walk on ground level with those that want to be equal. --- crtrufant@gmail.com
Thank you, Charles. Let's go there... :)
So why is it that people cannot even fathem such a society? where we (the human race) are capable of sustaining our resources, and using them to create true equality amongst individuals. Equality in education, medical care, housing, and availability of all resources.
Perhaps it is that these people cannot see that the past and present sociatal structure and underlying values are WRONG! Our economy is based on a ever failing monetary system. Our corporations are what controls ALL the technology that is allowed to be mass produced, the prices of your products, and even how much is produced. Our economy is based on scarcity. NOTHING IS CURRENTLY WORKING!!
So why can some people not wrap your closed off minds around this concept. Perhaps not all the futuristic style buildings, but the concepts are what we need to become a truly eco-concious, global civilization...
Yes, metalbabe... Let's go there... by all means, let's look at alternatives, let's discuss alternative models, what they are, how they can be implemented, what is working now in various parts of the world...because we ARE looking... In April I will be participating in a conference in Zurich of the Life and Mind Institute on Altruism and Compassion in Economic Systems. We will be discussing that very challenge...
Catana - Get a horse?
There will be no tomorrow without dreams. It's silly to quibble about vision if you only look to yesterday.
That last post was eloquent and succinct.
If you want to vote on this issue go to PIKK here: http://www.pikk.com/stories/my_pikk
Catana and anonymous, unfortunately you're both right and wrong. -- Catana, you're attitude is why we haven't reached that point yet. -- Anonymous, you must look to the past to create a better future. Recognizing what went wrong is just as important as recognizing what has gone right.
Wonder why my previous posts were erased from existence? There were no profanities used. Is the moderator a new convert or did the Zeitgeist members whine and complain to have them removed?
Dear Anonymous,
I wrote my post objectively, hoping to generate lively and healthy discussion. I am delighted to see that this is happening here.
I believe I only removed one post from this forum, based on its highly derogatory, racist and prejudiced comments about a particular culture and race. While I invite good debate and healthy argument, I will not sully this blog with destructive commentary.
Anonymous, I'm going to assume from your present comment that you would not write the kind of comment that I removed and suggest that perhaps your comment was lost in cyberspace. I can only invite you to include it again.
Best Wishes,
Nina Munteanu
Pretty architecture. Fanciful ideas. Utter impossibility to achieve using the inventors' philosophy. Socialism/Marxism doesn't work in the long run...never has & never will.
A quick note to "Jesus Christ": By the time anybody got through even a couple of paragraphs of that near incomprehensible drivel you pinned my Lord & Saviors' name to, the reading audience would be knocked out unconcious- A little pithiness, Please!
The project looks promising. Mainly because promises have not been kept today, a year ago, or 5 years ago. There are issues today which ANYONE can agree are not fully being attended to. I don't want to see pessimistic views. Solutions through scientific observation and realization have advanced society again and again through-out history...do the research. This is a possibility constructed through the scientific process and it does us good to at least entertain the idea. So Mr. Fresco...let's see more!
Nope, sorry I'm not buying any of of it..this is a perfect trap to keep a sequential order over earth...be like us, think like us, no room for the individual-self to grow.
Jacque Fresco is a man who has hands on experience in many different fields for 94 years now and has much to show for his work. You dare criticize this man with this useless post and your meaningless words..
and for what might i ask?
Do you propose an alternative?
i would love to hear that..
"You dare criticize this man with this useless post and your meaningless words." ... Hmmm, strong words from an "Anonymous" ID... There is a place on this blog for people to identify themselves (don't be shy, Anonymous).
I started this discussion to examine this project critically (I am a scientist, after all...LOL!). The moment critical scrutiny and examination are no longer acceptable, we are truly lost and our freedom gone.
What we get from this is also obvious: we get the truth, OUR truth--not just someone else's truth. And this is something I am certain Jacgue Fresco would both sanction and invite, as anyone with integrity would.
True freedom is defined by the right to question and the right to defend. Let's not throw that away or we invite something far far worse than what we presently have.
As for alternatives, yes there are many; no paradigm or model is "perfect" because of change and evolution. Above all else, it is important to maintain an open mind to possibilities and work TOGETHER with respect and without animosity.
I noticed that one of the earlier pro-venus/zeigeist comments advocated the possible "zapping" of an undesirable gene, when asked about mental illness in their new society.
I wonder how mental illness will be defined in this new society, who will make such decisions and whether there might be any other udesirable genes that need to be "zapped"?
The pursuit of technology is a wonderful thing, but anyone actually involved in its development knows that ultimately, there is a human controller. Who will write the rules or 'programs' for such life controlling technology and how will this be any better than those who write the rules for the monetary system which currently controls us? After all, all the technology you have now, developed since the industrial revolution, was developed under the existing system wasn't it?
This kind of concept, while noble in goal, is purely predicated on humanity's inherent will to do unselfish good in the absence of monetary pressure to do the opposite. Either you believe this or you don't.
Sounds like faith to me.... so much for it becoming 'irrelevant' :)
I discovered this post, as a result of Googling to try and find more information about the Venus Project from both sides.
I admit that the cultic nature of the responses from some of the VP supporters here, are deeply disturbing.
I'm wanting to investigate something potentially positive, but a cult is the last thing I want.
I think an important thing to consider behind all of this discussion is motivation. They say that the so-called "free market system" works because it helps motivate others by providing profit oriented incentives to individuals, corporations, governments, etc. This profit driven motivation is what has greatly aided in the rapid advancement of industrial society over the last hundred years. Whether you want to argue the moral implications this has had is another debate. But to ignore where this system has gotten us, and simply label it as broken, is to be rather disingenuous I think.
At the same time, to argue that a new system of society won't work without the bedrock of a 'free market system' - money, is to be ignorant to the true motivating factors of human behavior. Individuals will be more productive and efficient when working with 'intrinsic motivation' i.e., motivation while doing something that will inherently help others, or add to society as a whole; rather than 'extrinsic' motivational factors like money. Daniel H. Pink wrote an enlightening book on the subject of these motivations called "Drive".
In light of this book and many others relating to it, I think it is entirely possible for the societal structure suggested by the "Venus Project" to function properly. I will agree that perfection is far from what it will be, but like Fresco said himself; "…[a] resource based global economy is not perfect. Its just a lot better than what we have. We can never achieve perfection."
History will tell who wins this argument. I believe it was Mark Twain who said;
"In the beginning a patriot is a scarce man, hated and feared and scorned. But in time when his cause succeeds, the timid join him, because then it costs nothing to be patriot."
I happen to think it is an amazing concept actually. The pages you come across as you first graze the site are meant to capture your attention and be fantastical. They are meant to lure and fascinate. If you are fascinated and drawn to them, and then the idea, perhaps you will download the zeitgeist movies at zeitgeist . com and watch them. Perhaps the youth will be amazed and they will research and read. This is not an impossible concept. Make no mistake, the first images are not for scientific magnifying glasses, nothing is perfect, but at least it is an idea, a beginning, a place to start and something to dream about. I don't see anyone else coming up with a better future plan. I think that the general scope and initial pictures should not be judged so harshly because the facts and the 'how to' are out there for you to watch, read and educate yourself with. One should not make an uneducated judgment about the Venus Project.
I love the idea of it all, will it ever come true? Maybe when my son is an adult.
It would be better living for all of the human race. I know I am tired of all the BS politics in our world. Ever since man has become civilized its been the same song and dance.
The rich use the hard work of other men/women to fill there pockets.
Why cant humans break this vicious cycle? I am not for or share the same ideas as the Venus project. But some of the ideas are dead on about economy and the monetary system.
Really should we all take the red pill here.
The Oil Companies have destroyed the Florida coast and really do they give a crap...NO its money in there pockets when you fill up your car.
We as all humans need to wake up and stop letting these people dictate our lives or we wont have a future.
From what I have been able to read about this proposal for a new way of living on Earth, I may have begun to till the soil for the seeds of a Quasi-Zeitgeist/ Venus Project in a deeply rural community in South Africa.
Any pilgrims and critics should first Google: Hinterland Learners' Resource Network, and then send me a note.
Could a little child shall lead us?
Namaste
Sharon
Thank you, Sharon, for your comment. Sounds intriguing...
And thank you, Anonymous, for the information on Spiral Dynamics psychological model of human behavior and conciousness. This is very fascinating and relevant to this argument. I urge readers to look into this.
I believe that his dream or vision for humanity is breath taking and the best way for our human race to take steps into becoming a type 1 civilization...but the sad truth is the illunamati wouldn't allow it to happen....for hundreds and thousands of years the bloodline of these alien invaders are already reaching their goal of a new world order...it would be possible but that will mean that everyone would have to spread out the word of this corrupted government and those above them and ruin their plans for a new world order and killing billions of people...I love his ideas but its 666 era has already begun...I hope that we would be able to live like that one day....but all we can do now is have a little faith and hope for the new world order to be destoryed...u say I'm crazy...no I'm just praying...that everything will be ok....god bless and godspeed! Myspace.com/davidkong
Of course it is possible. If people were free to do what they wanted, they would. If people were driven by love instead of need of money society would be a better place.
I live in Japan were we still use money, we are still obviously on the monetary system. But the environment here fosters a different type of people. There are no guns, so murder is rather non-existent. People in general do not steal and you can leave your bag in a restaurant with cash in it and people will return it to you.
It about faith and values.
If people believe this can work, it can. If people are brought up to behave a certain way they will.
No one said that we could just move from our current cities and into these and everything would be perfect. There would obviously be a generation of transition.
But I for one refuse to be a slave to the monetary system any longer. the problem is everyone has to pull a Rosa Parks and quit participating in the illusion that money is going to get you anywhere because it is not. Money did not get us to the moon, the technology did.
So for compensation factors, if people have free will they will create projects to further the advancement of society, they just want have to wonder how to pay for it any longer freeing them of the slavery of debt.
But whether you like it or not Globalization is coming.
It is either coming in a Global monetary system with a One world Government unification where we are forever enslaved by these banks and corporations or we can all work together to stop that from happening and reclaim or freedom.
Money is not necessary. The only reason you think that is because that is all you know. Open you mind and think about it. If you learned how to farm could you? If a machine did it for you for nothing would you not have enough time to work on something else to benefit yourself and others?
Most of the miseries of the world are caused by money and wars and it is time for it to end.
This is the end of times and time for change. It is noted in almost every religion also, so think about where you want it to go.
Also this project is aimed at the level 6, the communitarian era.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments, David and Chris... We certainly need change ... change will occur with or without our input and a positive mind is one critical criterion. As Ghandi said, "You must be the change you wish to see in the world..."
www.circularcities.com
Wishful thinking impossible to realize PROJECT (except for the super rich who can afford a dream). I prefer the more realistic possibility of the Vilaj Vilaj project for haiti or the Architecture of Moshe Safdie in his habitat 67 project.
Thanks for sharing these projects with us. They sound worthwhile. We realize our future in many ways...
Case left this comment, which I accidentally deleted. Here it is:
If the futuristic concepts were made possible, I'm sure they would have the potential to revolutionize the way we build homes. Unfortunately, the whole "new society" thing is far fetched and assumes people will want to work everyday for free because...the advancement of society and technology is on their top list of priorities.
Thanks for your comment, Case!
Its funny how people quickly forget that most ideas get laughed at, mocked, ridiculed, rioted, fire-bombed, burned, etc...before they are realized...hmmm...let me think...
airplane
car
telephone
computer
train
bagel sandwich
peanut butter and jelly
twitter...(didn't see that coming)
heck...even you...before you parents saw to it...
I am not saying the venus project is the greatest thing...but then again I am not so sure it isn't...
Even if any part of the Venus Project is ever realized, so what?
Paris was at one point redesigned to be a "stunning" circular city. So what? What to they have now? Automobile congestion, overcrowding, rudeness and McDonald's partout.
The traveling Venus Project presentation is akin to a one trick pony show. People will come and listen as long as there is some sort of "theater" involved. You can try it yourself on any big city street corner.
The frequent mention of Aldous Huxley in the commentaries is worrisome. After all much of his message was about population control and manipulation, i.e. eugenics. It echoed all that the Fabian Society, of which he was a shining star, saw as a necessary agenda for the world.
The Venus Project has that certain Fabian Society odor about it: you're either with us or we are against you. And we'll win because we're so much smarter and "idealistic".
It all smells pretty mad, destructive and difficult to trust.
Hello all and SF Girl, you posted this way long ago. I didn't read almost everything but I had this to say,
"Thanks, Ivan and others... interesting thoughts. Especially about the whole money part. What you're talking about is essentially about altruistic behavior. That's the core of this whole argument and why some consider it untenable shlock and others dream of its attainment. It comes down to our own philosophy and whether our values come from the heart or from superficial things. And whether the glass is half full or half empty..."
People's values are shaped by their environment way more than they are by there genes, so the story goes. So most people will not change their beliefs or behaviors due to logic, reasoning or for the sake of helping humanity and our home, the earth. From what I have read, change occurs in mass when society is stricken with biosocial pressures that trigger a change. For example, a community of baboons or monkey (idk) were known to be violent and aggressive, so one day all the alpha, aggressive, male monkeys ate something that killed them and the only male monkeys that were left were passive and non aggressive. Almost instantly, the entire group of monkeys changed their behaviors because of the old social custom of aggression was gone. Now they live more peacefully.
Another example, is that the US feared being conquered by the axis of evil and so they forced themselves to do the opposite of what the Venus Project advocates, create a Nuke or WMD.
Once the shit hits the fan in this monetary world and people can't even feed their families, we will be here to tell people about the possibility of a future where society is based around abundance, sustainability and then change will occur.
So bio-social pressures that make people decide to create nukes can also make people decide to make The Venus Project a reality.
Alex,
I agree with your summary that it is a matter of perspective: "What you're talking about is essentially about altruistic behavior. That's the core of this whole argument and why some consider it untenable shlock and others dream of its attainment. It comes down to our own philosophy and whether our values come from the heart or from superficial things. And whether the glass is half full or half empty..."
It bears repeating and lies at the heart of social change. Which way do we move and enact change? In fear? Or in hope? The direction and consequence will be very different. It is, in some ways that simple.
zeitgeist..movie
Sooo... I take it all the sceptics are happy with poverty, famine, war, bankers controlling politics, corporations being more powerful than countrys, the current economic system?...
I get the venus project is a leap of faith when you are tied to the current system.
But how on earth do YOU think we can tackle all these problems if not only by a reconstruction of today's society on a more morally sound basis?
Maybe giving actual feedback and factual argumentation would be more useful than just bashing on the principle that "it looks too good".
ps: wikipedia says that guys like the owner of Blackwater are basically good guys... Maybe it's not such a great source for information?
ANYTHING is possible! I love how people get on here and laugh and ridicule new concepts. Especially concepts that would benefit the entire world. People, animals, the ecosystem. What is so strange about this? Nothing! If you were a person 150 years ago walking around and someone told you that people in 60 years will be driving vehicles that will get them around town in no time, and in 100 years there will big planes that will be able to fly people all around the world to exotic places, and in 150 years there will be machines that people will have in their homes and they'll be able to communicate with anyone in the world in a split second. If they told you this you'd look at them like they were ready for a straight jacket. You my friends are THOSE PEOPLE right here and now whether you like it or not. You are EXACTLY like the closed minded people of the past who never thought in a million years these things would be possible. Hell I have aunts who still can't believe email or cellphones exist. They say...never in my wildest dreams when I was a little girl did I think one day I'd reach into my purse and answer a phone. And a phone that I could go on the internet and receive email? NEVER EVER EVER! So when people present new concepts and ideas rather than laughing at them just try and open your mind. Because if people hadn't...you wouldn't have your iphone today. But in a 100 years they'll be laughing at the iphone. They'll be all...eww, how primitive LOL!
Zeitgeist is dangerous, new kind of dark world domination.
Utterly stupid and separatist.
One thing coming from demented minds, wolves dressed as lambs.
And by the way,
Eewww the cities up there are so ugly.they are horrid, dont have anything to do with the environment around, look like spacheships or alien invasion.
The world seriously need be aware of resourses, but NOT in the ways they want,
Zeitgeist is the most utterly opressive thing ive seen in late years.
They will not let you love your land or have religion,they are calling you stupid, they offend your beliefs (whatever they are), your culture stupid,
and be aware if they ever come to power (wich i dont think they will fortunately)they will be expropriating you one day as in some kind of masked agressive comunism.
Beware of Zeitgeist, dont let they grow. Stop this madness!
Zeitgeist is dangerous, new kind of dark world domination.
Utterly stupid and separatist.
One thing coming from demented minds, wolves dressed as lambs.
And by the way,
Eewww the cities up there are so ugly.they are horrid, dont have anything to do with the environment around, look like spacheships or alien invasion.
The world seriously need be aware of resourses, but NOT in the ways they want,
Zeitgeist is the most utterly opressive thing ive seen in late years.
They will not let you love your land or have religion,they are calling you stupid, they offend your beliefs (whatever they are), your culture stupid,
and be aware if they ever come to power (wich i dont think they will fortunately)they will be expropriating you one day as in some kind of masked agressive comunism.
Beware of Zeitgeist, dont let they grow. Stop this madness!
Ugly 1960s retread. And white? Where is the color? Soleri was much more in tune with nature as was Frank Lloyd Wright. I like the idea of throwing your ideas out there, but the voice-over indicates this is the agenda: how it will be. No thanks. You can not go against nature, because when you do, that's part of nature too.
This Venus project is a backwards step in evolution. Future sustainable living needs to be in harmony with the natural world. The Venus project separates man from nature in a high-density artificial environment that will cause humans to adopt unhealthy mental mindsets. Until man learns to live with nature these utopian high-tech models will waste man's time and energy.
I think man already has adopted unhealthy mental mindsets due to our reliance on this monetary system. Honestly, as the author proposed, I think they just need a better copywriter.
The human mind is always wanting more so the fact thqt we want this society not saying its a bad idea could only achieved if the entire race as one agreed to this wich in hein sight is not very likely the point is the rich will want to stay rich but the poor will likely enjoy this idea if an argument was presented to them basically the odds of such a society happening is slim to none unless a sort of catastrofic world appifany where to happen wic is again unlikely
For those who called the venus project "pure frivolity" or something to that nature, I say think what you want, but remember, some thought the world was once flat. Some thought the Wright Brothers were foolish to attempt to fly. Some would have thought a cordless phone was impossible. My point is, NOTHING is impossible. If you can imagine it in your mind it can be manufactured. After all, everything you see (besides nature), is just an extension of a human's thought. Stop the pessimistic, weak-minded thinking and we MAY advance one day.
I read this blog and I just cant believe how pessimistic and bitter some people can be!
Open your minds!!
Thankfully there are people like PEACEFROG,ICYNDICEY ,KOUBY and others who are open minded and respect those with new concepts and ideas!!
I've read several comments on this article, and noticed that alot who are against the venus project constantly talks about it as an utopian society...
Let me ask you this; where does it say it is a utopia??? I have never seen it...
In fact they've said the quite opposite several times...
All these negative views are all projected onto the venus project...
www.circularcities.com
I have read the majority of the comments in the blog, both for and against the venus project concepts.
It is to be noted that many responders refered to the ideas as being those of one individual, namely the founder of the movement. This is not the case, yes he is the founder but the concepts ideas and plans are the work of many persons not just him. Perhaps they fear that this is a new form of eventual restrictive society. One fact that is often forgotten is that the founder of this movement is 89 years of age and will in all likelihood not see the fruits and concepts proposed implemented and working.
On another tack, I agree with the ideas and concepts fully in that the current economic model is definitely not working and non sustainable.
I have had personal experience of the fickle nature of his system in that i have gone from being a sucessfull and well paid professional to an unemployed, bankrupt and disabled individual over the period of three years. How is this possible, very simple indeed in that i suffered a stroke due to the stresses of the work, being made unemployed and worrying about how the bills were to be paid and also being constantly hounded for payments even though there was no way to pay these.
This last economic meltdown is also not the first as i have seen several over the last 20 years, each progressively worse. In Each case the governments bailed out the banks and industry to restore the economy. What this meant was that actually the tax payers funded the bail outs for those who had actually resulted in the crises in the first place.
So those of you who look to the governments for inspiration and guidance should actually look long and hard at the existing system.
We as a society are brainwashed into believing that we need to have that bigger house in the upmarket parts of town, filled with all those unecesssary objects marketed to us. Ask yourselves where does the marketing stem from. the answer is simple, the very institutions and organisations that make obscene profits from selling those items.
one example is if you take the financial institutions. They actively market and sell credit on the basis that it is your right to live beyond your means, and then when you cannot repay then (because you lost your job etc)what do they do. They take whatever you have have without any compassion or remorse.
They never will accept the responsibility for having sold finance and loans to people, that they are well aware, could never repay the amounts.
All in all the current system is breaking down faster and faster. The concepts and ideas proposed by the Venus project an Zeitgeist movement offer this planet a viable solution for the long term.
Granted these are not perfect, but what system is. Only a system that is based on managing the available resources, looking after all persons on an equal basis, is dynamic and can change as it identifies and learns from its mistakes can save this planet.
In closing i would like to make some observations about the state of our planet, It is polluted, has hundreds of millions of people that are living below the breadline, there are wars going on daily in every part of the planet, natural disasters are on the uprise probably due to our desecration of the planet, resources are dwindling with no serious efforts being made t o recycle or find alternatives.We should be seriously be considering how we can help repair the damage we as humans have caused and improve the lot of everybody.
This is the basic tenet of Zietgeist and the venus project. Instead of shooting the idea down flatly, rather read the literature, understand the concept and if you identify flaws try to help provide solutions to the problems that you see. In this way we all can contribute to a better future.
The most frightening part of all of the above is that we as a planet are heading for WW3 at an accelerated pace.
Thanks and regards to all.
First of all, I'm impressed by your response to the Venus Project! Getting to my point, I am disappointed that you saw the Venus Project as simply an artists dream. Jacque Fresco, the brains behind it all, is an ENGINEER. He earned a P.H.D. in engineering! Check this out and see if this convinces you that this is not simply an "artists dream". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCH0BQ2nSMo
Also, have you considered what our monetary system is and where it's taking us? The idea of money itself is a pyramid scheme based on unlimited growth, which of course is not possible on a planet with finite resources. The Venus Project is not simply another form of government... it is the next righteous step of human evolution, the step to ensure our longterm survival as a species!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
Alex, thanks for your comments and for posting these links. Very enlightening...and the second link, "Zeitgeist Moving Forward" (2011 release) is very worthwhile to watch for insightful commentary by researchers and respected scholars from around the world.
In fact, all 153 comments here have been both compelling, intelligent and enlightening. Thanks everyone for your thoughtful input. You've made this single post a great resource for thoughtful debate on the future of humankind...
I am doing a presentation on home remedies at a zeitgeist festival and have been checking out their whacky views all week to see how i feel. The cult vibe is clear, mostly well meaning granola types, nothing really sinister, just a creepy way of disenfranchising the left with idealistic bafflegab at a time when it might actually be in a position to genuinely do something. interesting to see venus project is supported by david icke. with his green party sabotage history, he makes the perfect poster boy for a movement named after a scary sounding german word. i feel most sorry for anyone who feels they have to watch that film. i have seen enuff propaganda that i know better than to waste my eyeball time. i must say however that the venus project's jetsons-like imagery of future architecture are stunningly beautiful omni magazine monstrosities that look like they might actually exist in dubai or vegas. their mind may be focused on venus, but someone should tell their leader "your head is firmly focused in the deepest manner possible in uranus."
^ So whats your solution?
this is a psuedo-utopian joke...a quasi-communistic fairytale...they want to abolish the family--well, the media and society are already doing a good job of that, mate, and look at the results. They sure make it look nice with all the fake drawings, though. I bet this crap is financed by the United Nations, just like the fake messiah "maitreya". Just another attempt at one-world government by the insider bastards.
Very interesting. I linked here by way of article on Naked Capitalism, a comment there led me to Zeitgeist, and from there Venus Project, and now here.
The Venus Project concept looks like it has good ideas in it, and I intend to watch the movie. But it also sounds to me like it makes the classic New Age mistake. It promises a future free of conflict (in contrast to where we are now, almost the reverse). But to get to such a future would obviously require an enormous conflict, the conflict to unseat the power of Capital as described by Marx and others, the need for which is denied or elided by the New Age'ers. Instead, they promise that something (something usually like technology, or mental change) will make this virtually impossible to conceive Ultimate Conflict unnecessary.
That's a critical point, and I don't believe it. Technology will not kill selfishness or unseat the power of Capital.
It will take another human social force, and not merely lack-of-selfishness. That other force is the force of solidarity. The people I respect more design societies around human ideas of solidarity and fairness. Those people like Robin Hahnel and Michael Albert have proposed an economic system called Participatory Economics, which proposes that people have input to a decision making process based on how much it affects them. And another core idea is that social dividends (salary, credits, etc, I still think we need something like that) be distributed on the basis of effort. That fits the non-capitalist left notion of fairness. I'm not sure if enough people can accept that. But it would be far easier for most to accept that than accept free-for-all (especially amidst the rising levels of scarecity of water, etc., everywhere).
Marx had the word for groups like The Venus Project: Utopian Socialist. Problem is, I agree it's true that he was one of them also, for he had a vision ultimately based on cornucopian view of material possibility.
Of course, most of the current new age'ers won't identify with old-age words such as socialism or communism. That would no doubt offend many of their donors (can't build a free society that way, sorry).
But what they propose is actually far more unrealistic than old-world socialism or communism.
I take the opposite tack. I do not denounce Marx. I call myself a socialist and a leftist. I am not afraid of the word communism either. This is because, as Howard Zinn advised, we have to choose sides, and I have chosen the side of the majority of people, and against those who now have most of the power and "wealth" (a more unquestioned form of power), regardless of whether that makes some people think they must be my enemy.
If people don't choose sides, they aren't really serious. They're just playing a tune for your money.
Finally, there really is a kind of socialism that is still making life far better for most than it might be, in this world today. That is Social Democracy. Even as official dogma denounces it, it can't really be erased, only further corrupted. This is where the battle lines are now, and if you live in the real world, you should be there too, fighting to hold on to what we already won.
My political blog is
http://verydeepleft.blogspot.com
Thank you Audio Investigator, for your insightful thoughts...
Yes, a change in paradigm requires a shift from within, driven by our souls. That is coming... :)
I agree with you: solidarity is one of the keys. But not from a place of exclusion; rather from a place of inclusion, cooperation,forgiveness, and altruism. This can only come to us through the recognition that "other" is US.
Please check out The Venus Project Social Network at http://www.thevenusprojectnetwork.com/
It’s funny how people come in here and discredit, dispute, put down, criticize, and object new ideas of the future. May I remind you that all of them people who are saying these negative comments are the same people who use to think that the world was flat or that the sun rotates around the earth? Which I think is great! Because that only pushes humanity to better themselves when change refuse to happen humanity eventually whether they like it or not will have to adapt and see that there is a bigger picture at hand even if it works or it doesn’t. We are still one more step closer. In case you didn’t know we are heading towards a fascist society. We do not have democracy! And if you still believe in freedom I rest my case. There is no such thing as a democracy or freedom in our current monetary society. We are an imperialistic dictatorship society where money is power and status is cast upon every human being. With this system there will always be poor and rich, full and hungry, sheltered and homeless, and then having the upper class run everything to make only profits. We all know the government is corrupt and in charge of everything evil to being front lines of freedom and democracy to wars crimes and fraud. The same people who are fighting the war on drugs are the same people growing and buying them. The same people who are fighting for freedom and democracy are the same people committing the war crimes and terrorist attacks. We need change! Stop the BS! America stands for nothing but profit whether it’s on war or drugs or war of terror even war on freedom and democracy. And one person figures that what we are doing is not real improvements. We are just digging a deeper hole for ourselves. A plan that is not perfect but better than our current situation emerges. It’s the new world order! They are just in it for the money! It’s a scam! When really in reality it’s a first step to thinking positively and intelligently as a human race where we can truly prosper and live to our lives to the fullest potential as earth’s habitants living in harmony with everything nature and spiritual. We should not live separated by race, religion, political views and culture. We should live as one single occupants of the beautiful world we live in with no difference. With no more hate and wars but peace and love. And to all of you who say that this vision of a better world is going nowhere you definitely need to wake up. What are your ideas? Share them if you think you have better ones. We have to work together not be divided. We have been divided for so long as a human race. Just imagine if we had this mind set a hundred years ago. Life would be a much better place than today’s world. Instead we have politics that runs everything. They cannot solve our problems. PERIOD! Only we can! Be the change you want to see in the world! Think of all the generations to come! If they were to think back why we did not see this coming it would be a total loss of reaching a higher type of conscious and realization that we could have made a change to bring ourselves at another level. But instead destroying ourselves and the earth we live in. So when you say it will not work help with inputs. Share your ideas. Ask questions and the answers. Can we do better than this? How can we change this current situation? Why can’t we be friends? Why can’t the whole world work together? Where can we start? Instead we are being counterproductive and too busy fighting one another. We need change and the change is you!
I Hosted a very succesful Zeitgeist Nottingham Chapter meet last night where we discussed what Media to use & how best to raise awareness. We are growing! I think people here should realize that TVP, TZM & Jacque are not proposing a Utopian solution, we are advocating a new direction. IMHO the consequences of not changing direction are inevitable & too frightening to comprehend.
Hey, check out this website and see if it changes your mind or shows you anything you didn't know: www.incanautchallenge.com
The Venus Project doesn't propose a utopia, it proposes an alternative way of life. In one of the million videos Jacque or some other person shows old commercials where the advent of technology was shown and made to seem that it would lead to a utopia--but we have technology and here we are. TVP seems like a utopia now, but it's not really that. I have not heard him speak of crime being eliminated. Now turning a new leaf, for all the nay sayers who say it is impossible, there is a growing number of organizations and people who are educating people on solidarity and unity, one example is the Global Oneness project: http://www.globalonenessproject.org/
Films available for nonprofit on Youtube, called Home talk about how we can no longer sustain individual thinking and we must come together. There are huge and growing number of groups, Beyond War http://www.beyondwar.org/ and organization trying to teach people that war is obsolete, there are organizations with growing numbers that fight to prove that No one is Illegal in this country, to take down borders as a whole, there are Religions all over the world coming together for the name of Peace.
http://www.religionsforpeace.org/
Because many people all over the world are coming to the awareness that we can not survive if we continue like this. Now, if we are to survive and current trends are forcing us to come together in unity eventually in 100 or 200 years which is a short time even if it is not in our life time, probably even less than all of that we will begin to make peace and unity with each other, as we begin to realize now in present day that our current economy and way of life is ineffective and for survival adopt a different perspective on the world, we will also naturally adopt similar concepts to the Venus Project, maybe not the actual project but the world he and others propose will naturally unfold. This is something that won't happen "now", and appears as a Utopia of frivolty in this moment, but will happen as we become more aware that our survival is intricately connected with our neighbours and we need the collective to survive, and to start thinking about each other. Film, What it Would Look like discusses how our current Society is crumbling, and how we can't respond with the same tired solutions. http://www.globalonenessproject.org/videos/whatwoulditlooklike
We are in an age of growing awareness. I think that we're most likely reach a period of dark age, of strife and struggle, similar to the periodic dark ages that happen in the past (If you study history this is a sociology phenomena which can be researched online as the trends of society advancing and then collapsing), from each collapse a new and more advanced world developed from the last. The only difference is we didn't have mass weapons of nuclear destruction. Whether we survive or not is not the issue, it's that should we survive and some of us will, parallel Noah's ark and other myths symbolic of collapse and survivours, the issue is that after we will move forward. Hopefully it won't take that much death to happen, the destruction could be environmental, who knows. All I know is that those of us who debunk such dreams of peace and unity as utopia are looking at a small piece of the picture. We are also under the mistaken illusion that Unity and Peace = Utopia, when it doesn't at all. There will still be issues, different issues and struggles, but the difference is we will be united, we will be more tolerant of diversity and realize we are all players on the same team. That is the only difference, it is not the Utopia people seem to have in their head only one step forward to a better life.
Stop comparing the venus project to the new world order. I do not see anything that relates the two. Just here to stop the spread! The VENUS PROJECT IS NO WAY THE NEW WORLD ORDER.
I was under the impression, after visiting the carousel of progress, at Disney back in 1970 that we would by now be living in this type of world. (Don't try to see that exhibit, Disney got rid of it sowe 40 somethings wouldnt get depressed!) I love this mans xreams of the future. If they seem somewhat simplistic in ideology maybe it really is the way we have been programmed. If you told people even 10 years ago our Presidentin 2008 would be African American they would have co.sidered you optimistic. Kind of hard to believe how far we can stretch our intelligence and evolution as a species if we just give ourselves a chance. .My only suggestion is next time have Morgan Freeman narrate!
I like how no mention is made of the labor it would take to build and maintain this dream world. As a Technician I would feel pretty cheated knowing that I was 1 in a handful of people, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, that had a 9 to 5! You think your neighborhood mechanic is grumpy now...
Some of the illustrations also show what look to be large homes with all mod cons, some luxury and acreage. Which will you opt for, the 10x20 flat or the estate in the country? You could house the world...but we'd all be getting the flat.
I feel The Venus Project is a nice idea for the Bourgeoisie to fiddle with their pipes over but could easily be a breeding ground for Eugenic ideology.
@ Alistar. Dude, you are missing the point here. You are looking through your eyes and experiences based upon the things you already know. I leaves you with a sense of being alone at it, and that is precisely the problem. Be positive at this, you will never be alone, but you are surrounded by people who will help you. They have nothing else on their hands...
Actually a resource based economy was how the United States transformed itself at the onset of WWII from a shambling mess of soup lines and an air corps of rusty bi-planes to a world industrial power again with B-17's and P-51 Mustangs, and a germinating space program.
Actually a resource based economy was how the United States transformed itself at the onset of WWII from a shambling mess of soup lines and an air corps of rusty bi-planes to a world industrial power again with B-17's and P-51 Mustangs, and a germinating space program.
There needs to evolve a better system than is in place now, which merely shuffled labor and capital around in a pointless manipulation of markets that leaves us devastated regions like Detroit, and embattled regions like the middle East.
Socialism via the Soviet style has always ended up with a concentration camp, capitalism without an underlying culture that seeks to "do good by doing well" can also degenerate into a weekend in Vegas with nothing but a riotous mess afterward. So a system of accountability and reward must also be married with a system of opportunity to access education and capital in some form to create useful work.
In all reality those on the left and the right purport to the same goals; freedom and opportunity. The problem lies in their inability to contrive a manageable system that allows the material and human rsources which sit idle-especial all across the solar system still so many years after we have walked on the moon. There has to be a better way. We are hugely capable of over production, and still there is starvation, homelessness, and billions of people with countless years of education and training working beneath their ability or not at all.
>>>I find it funny that a project like this is scoffed at because a person doesn't feel it can be done. Sustainable living, proper management of resources, freedom from drudgery, and the like are all things we want, yet it is often received with cynicism and dismissal It is obvious the goal of one earthling community is inevitable, why not now? We have the technology, it is only the monetary system that makes this difficult.
You hit the nail right in the head bro
>>>just imagine almost the entire world population with access to the maximum elite level of education and more than half of that working in science and engineering, think what can we create........ just think...... Amen
>>But money isn't the problem... it's just the symptom. Greed is the problem.
By nature in general man is not greedy as scarcity escalates so is greediness. Look back when you are younger and compare it to now. And that’s only about half a generation. VP proposes abundance thru technology to minimize greediness. Is it difficult to understand? I should know, I am an innovator/inventor myself and yes I can produce free energy with proper support. Many had but are either coerce, sabotage or killed. All because some big entities had to store supplies to avoid scarcity and that could only be done in a monetary system. You can’t hoard and store goods in the banks. This is one of the beauties of a resource based economy.
>>>and yes that includes "people wont be hoarding because there is unlimited products" amen
>>>and "there will be unlimited products because it will be designed to be reused" Agree and I read somewhere on this blog about products breaking down just after the warranty expires all because of profit which can be stored in the banks. Very true indeed. I was just wondering why others can not see it. I hope our scientist host is now awake. By the way let me tell you how the hoarders make fake truths, They make fake scientist hire them and make them proclaim their fake truths. So now our truths and facts are actually lies. E=mc2 so why are we buying energy when we can make it from stones and soils, everything. Brilliant scientist able to come up with exact computation with out actual experiment to prove. And he is very very famous while nikola tesla and the rest are mere shadows in the background. I’m not accusing anyone. Try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WfdMdyVFdw
>>>Either way, I doubt we will see it happen in our current time while the people behind the people who make the majority of the wealth of the world are still here.
And how about your children and grandchildren? Aren’t you dreaming of a better life for them? Are we going to simply stare in hopelessness with out doing something? Aren’t we going to try to remove those people? There is joy in trying, boredom in not.
>>>Making it almost a sin to think out side the box, to think outside the old world that has been left to us by the failed efforts of our parents.
That’s always been the case and history will also tell that those who think outside the box are the most useful members of the human family.
>>>The way things are now proves that tremendously, just look how we stay the same and follow old beliefs and old policies.....just because we feel we are free.
Yes and only people with ”eyes wide shut” feel free.
>>>These institutions have created social classes which in turn creates a negative form of individuality. Why are you better than the next guy? Because you're a christian? Because you're a politician? Because you have money?? What makes you worse than the next guy? Because you're on food stamps? Because you're unemployed? Because you don't have health insurance?? These forms of negative individuality is what keeps mankind from achieving the greatest things we can achieve at this level of our advancement. Divide and rule my friend. Strategy it is. They conquered the world with their twisted ideals and exceptional brains but I do not think they have the monopoly of it. Exceptional brains undying hope and goodwill are our best ally.
>>>The pursuit of technology is a wonderful thing, but anyone actually involved in its development knows that ultimately, there is a human controller. Who will write the rules or 'programs' for such life controlling technology and how will this be any better than those who write the rules for the monetary system which currently controls us? After all, all the technology you have now, developed since the industrial revolution, was developed under the existing system wasn't it?
This kind of concept, while noble in goal, is purely predicated on humanity's inherent will to do unselfish good in the absence of monetary pressure to do the opposite. Either you believe this or you don't.
>>>At the same time, to argue that a new system of society won't work without the bedrock of a 'free market system' - money, is to be ignorant to the true motivating factors of human behavior. Yes indeed. Am I confused here or are you? Make your stand clear.
Sounds like faith to me.... so much for it becoming 'irrelevant'
Faith it is or impossible only when you do not understand. And again you can’t hoard goods only money. Goods will be hoard if they can be sold and profit (money) stored in the banks. Try to hoard some apples and oranges with out selling them and flies will come all over your place.
I'm wanting to investigate something potentially positive, but a cult is the last thing I want. Look into your neighborhood around your workplace try to analyze the motives and reasons for every action and rules and compare it to the mainstream facts science facts media facts etc. do you see coherence? Ask yourself why? And You will see clearly?
julian
>>>They say that the so-called "free market system" works because it helps motivate others by providing profit oriented incentives to individuals, corporations, governments, etc. This profit driven motivation is what has greatly aided in the rapid advancement of industrial society over the last hundred years
Perhaps you must first see the achievements on a resource based economy to have a comparison. In my assessment, RV etc. it is better than profit oriented system by at least a hundred folds. Money does not motivate me provided of course there is abundance of basic necessity. What motivates me in any case is innovation. The joy of coming with a solution to a problem or coming up with something new. I was born this way it is my nature so I’d like to believe that man by nature is not motivated by money rather by the fear of having nothing.
>>>We as all humans need to wake up and stop letting these people dictate our lives or we wont have a future. Amen my friend
>>>However, I think this proposal is too ahead of its time. No my friend it should have been proposed centuries ago now it is very late because people is deep under the hypnotism. But nothing is too late you should never ever loose hope in hope there is excitement and joy and that’s the meaning of life.
>>>Or we could help ourselves and our friends to evolve to level 7 and beyond so that we can have a smooth transition from the monetary-based society to a new society of highly evolved beings without a catalytic catasthrophe.
You seemed to be confused upon coming, but finally found your answer. A word of advice.. don’t look very far I coined words for this kind “overscientific” or “excessivestudy” proofs are everywhere in your locality, open your eyes look around.
Hi David Kong, your comment showed your losing heart. Not good… this means you already defeated. Stand up man better to try and loss. There is joy in trying, only boredom in not.
>>>People's values are shaped by their environment way more than they are by there genes, so the story goes. So most people will not change their beliefs or behaviors due to logic, reasoning or for the sake of helping humanity and our home, the earth.
Once the shit hits the fan in this monetary world and people can't even feed their families, we will be here to tell people about the possibility of a future where society is based around abundance, sustainability and then change will occur.
>>>So bio-social pressures that make people decide to create nukes can also make people decide to make The Venus Project a reality.
Indeed my friend we will be here when people realize the need for an alternative which will bring about change. But logical reasoning is a big part on what change should it be. And that is what we are trying to accomplish here.
>>>sustainable living needs to be in harmony with the natural world. The Venus project separates man from nature in a high-density artificial environment that will cause humans to adopt unhealthy mental mindsets.
You have a point brother. I hope VP had this covered. On the other hand what kind of environment are we in right now? Come to the Philippines and see the squatters’ area and the houses under the bridge.
The most frightening part of all of the above is that we as a planet are heading for WW3 at an accelerated pace.
Frightened or not we need to do what needs to be done.
julian
>>>this is a psuedo-utopian joke...a quasi-communistic fairytale...they want to abolish the family--well, the media and society are already doing a good job of that, mate, and look at the results. They sure make it look nice with all the fake drawings, though. I bet this crap is financed by the United Nations, just like the fake messiah "maitreya". Just another attempt at one-world government by the insider bastards.
Yes, UN; messiah; fake media fake science everywhere you look they are there. Perhaps this explains why you are loosing hope and conveniently declare everything as part of it including the VP which is in my opinion the best proposal I have seen so far.
>>>But how on earth do YOU think we can tackle all these problems if not only by a reconstruction of today's society on a more morally sound basis?
The way the hoarders did. By brainwashing, only this time we reverse it and we can call it “brain reformatting”
@Dan Anthony
There is a lot of essence within your brains, but would you so be kind to others by posting something on layman terms and make clear your stand on the subject. I have been inviting people to Venus project site. Leaning must be married with action to produce something. What have you done so far? Would you inspire others?
I’m from a different culture so let me be clear that this is a challenge not an insult.
>>>Anyone have a clue how to make that happen?
I believe VP has the clue although not complete it is definitely something to start with. Again the key Word is “do not loose hope”. There is joy in trying only boredom in not.
To SF girl thanks for creating this blog.
On another web blog I discuss money and the cause of hoarding and that business are careful not to affect abundance lest the price go down. A high school classmate who is now based in Germany invited the group to zeitgeist saying she is glad to know that at least one person in the Philippines is aware (awake).
This is how I came to know about the project, apparently she knew of the project long ago, with her son an active member of zeitgeist movement, But for fear of being ridiculed she declined mention of it until I am able to speak out my mind. Let us support VP.
Peace, Cheers and goodwill
“I am you and you re me”
Julian
P.S. I highly recommend the site of Tanya Kotsos
>>>Either way, I doubt we will see it happen in our current time while the people behind the people who make the majority of the wealth of the world are still here.
*And how about your children and grandchildren? Aren’t you dreaming of a better life for them? Are we going to simply stare in hopelessness with out doing something? Aren’t we going to try to remove those people? There is joy in trying, boredom in not.
>>>Making it almost a sin to think out side the box, to think outside the old world that has been left to us by the failed efforts of our parents.
*That’s always been the case and history will also tell that those who think outside the box are the most useful members of the human family.
>>>These institutions have created social classes which in turn creates a negative form of individuality. Why are you better than the next guy? Because you're a christian? Because you're a politician? Because you have money?? What makes you worse than the next guy? Because you're on food stamps? Because you're unemployed? Because you don't have health insurance?? These forms of negative individuality is what keeps mankind from achieving the greatest things we can achieve at this level of our advancement.
*Divide and rule my friend. Strategy it is. They conquered the world with their twisted ideals and exceptional brains but I do not think they have the monopoly of it. Exceptional brains undying hope and goodwill are our best ally.
>>>The pursuit of technology is a wonderful thing, but anyone actually involved in its development knows that ultimately, there is a human controller. Who will write the rules or 'programs' for such life controlling technology and how will this be any better than those who write the rules for the monetary system which currently controls us? After all, all the technology you have now, developed since the industrial revolution, was developed under the existing system wasn't it?
This kind of concept, while noble in goal, is purely predicated on humanity's inherent will to do unselfish good in the absence of monetary pressure to do the opposite. Either you believe this or you don't.
>>>At the same time, to argue that a new system of society won't work without the bedrock of a 'free market system' - money, is to be ignorant to the true motivating factors of human behavior.
*Yes indeed. Am I confused here or are you? Make your stand clear.
Sounds like faith to me.... so much for it becoming 'irrelevant'
*Faith it is or impossible only when you do not understand. And again you can’t hoard goods only money. Goods will be hoard if they can be sold and profit (money) stored in the banks. Try to hoard some apples and oranges with out selling them and flies will come all over your place.
I'm wanting to investigate something potentially positive, but a cult is the last thing I want.
*Look into your neighborhood around your workplace try to analyze the motives and reasons for every action and rules and compare it to the mainstream facts science facts media facts etc. do you see coherence? Ask yourself why? And You will see clearly?
Julian
your thinking is limited by the culture you live in. your mindset is so today. one must step into a different mindframe to understand the possibilities. unfortunately we are all prisoners of culture and tradition.please study more of jacques's research and knowledge if you want to truly understand. there's nothing pedantic about his work. he has done and put to practice many of the concepts he speaks of. please inform yourself thoroughly before commenting. i understand your fears an doubts and in today's world it is quite understandable to have them. please do more research before you make a judgment on these ideas and discard them as pipe dreams. the only other option is our destruction. simply see what is happening around to understand that if we don't make a transition, we may all be dead by the middle of the century-wars, wars, wars. jobs are not coming back. technology is taking over people's jobs. buying power is diminishing and wages are stagnant. a point will come when all breaks apart. riots will ensue and fascist military war mongering dictatorships will be not only take absolute control, but people will beg for them, in order to bring stability-slavery and death will be the result-not we are not already slaves and are dying by the millions over stress and the need for basic necessities. please don't be blind and wakeup before it is too late. good luck with your research, keep and open mind and be real scientist-see jacque's defition of such. thanks justus99.
I am a recent grad from East Carolina University with a masters in Psychology and have touched a little on cults and mass activity. I have read a bunch of articles on this project and the "Zeitgeist" movement and it concerns me. I believe that it is not a cult, maybe it has gained a strong following but not a cult. Another thing that is bothering me is that people are mistaking his utopian society as fascist or communist because his proposed "government" is a bit different from our own democracy. The harsh truth is, Americans, that we do not live in a "democracy," in any sense of the word. By definition we live in a republic, meaning, that we elect officials that do our decision making for us. In this sense Mr. Fresco has introduced an alternative means to the very government we have in place now. Retrospectively, when one understands what kind of government we live in now, they can understand how our own government fails to provide us with our needs. We constantly elect people who do not represent the majority of the same people they are supposed to lead. There seems to be a breakdown in communication. At least in his proposed plan a little more of that power is relinquished to the immediate population of the cities. It makes sense to me, why have jobs when we have perfectly good computers that can do it for us, and with everyone having their needs met we do not have to worry about "jobs" or making money to buy things you get for free.
Not that i have red everything in this post but if it has done anything good it has made me seriously study and 'become' a scientist to invent things that will help humanity, i'm sure that will help us get a step further and that just me...
For all those in this current society whom take the Bible (preferably the King James one) seriously, I would like to know any factual based input on whether or not this would cause major controversy to humans of (Christian) faith. I would like to point out that although he has talked to some 'religious' people, It is bothering me to try to understand whether or not this is part of the NWO scheme. He had suggested that the society would be monitored by computer systems in all areas of life, and I do understand what he means, but the globalists or elitists from around the globe who control nations wouldn't take this innovative idea so lightly because they've been contemplating with dark spiritual powers for quite some time now to 'finalize' their agenda for population control. Take in consideration that they would destroy the people before they could actually implement
this. There are too many powerful corporations and powers that depend on the monetary system for control over our earth's resources and our daily lives for this to actually happen. If it does, they will allow this to be a stepping stone to smooth out the Global Political Governance just to cause mass genocide and control the computers that support the project. Sorry for the long statement, and may God bless. Is this really worth not looking into as a factor as well?
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